Re: [TICTOC] Problem statement

Yaakov,

What you said may be true but it does not change the validity of my
statement: It is incorrect to claim that IEEE 1588 committee did not
come up with a security mechanism. Thus, my previous comment still
applies.

By the way, "zero-knowledge proof of time", "breaking the loop of
authentication requiring time", and "time requiring authentication"  are
all new terms. At least I did not find any hits in Google except the two
to the tictoc minutes from Paris. There must be some references that
describe these problems. Could you provide a pointer to a reference (or
pointers) for the group so that the validity of the terms could be
reviewed?

Quick comment for Danny Mayer. IETF is one of the organizations that may
define IEEE 1588 profiles. One should check, though, how free hands IEEE
1588 profile makers have. 

Antti

________________________________

	From: ext Yaakov Stein [mailto:yaakov_s@rad.com] 
	Sent: 30 July, 2008 13:49
	To: Pietilainen, Antti (NSN - FI/Espoo); ext Doug Arnold;
tictoc@ietf.org
	Subject: RE: [TICTOC] Problem statement

	Antii

	We could discuss the annex at some later meeting,
	however, the annex you mention does not address the main
concerns of a security mechanism for timing,
	namely zero-knowledge proof of time and breaking the loop of
authentication requiring time
	and time requiring authentication (see the relevant slide from
the interim meeting report).

	Y(J)S

________________________________

	From: tictoc-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tictoc-bounces@ietf.org]
On Behalf Of Pietilainen, Antti (NSN - FI/Espoo)
	Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 1:45 PM
	To: ext Doug Arnold; tictoc@ietf.org
	Subject: Re: [TICTOC] Problem statement

	Doug,
	You said that the IEEE 1588 committee failed to come up with a
security mechanism. However, it did come up with one in the form of a
security protocol annex. It is informative and experimental but it was
overviewed by NIST security experts. Consequently, I propose to re-word
your statement so that the existing security annex is credited somehow.
I also propose to start possible security work by seeing how far one can
go with the existing annex. You might include Ron Cohen as cc so he has
the option to comment.
	Antti 

________________________________

		From: tictoc-bounces@ietf.org
[mailto:tictoc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Doug Arnold
		Sent: 30 July, 2008 13:23
		To: tictoc@ietf.org
		Subject: [TICTOC] Problem statement

		Comment on TICTOC problem statement:
draft-bryant-tictoc-probstat-02.txt

		The need for precise time and frequency transfer in
engineered LANs is gernally met by IEEE 1588-2008.  Such networks
include high speed printing presses and other industrial automation
applications, power utility substation sync, etc.  However the 1588
committee failed to come up with a security mechanism.  So secure time
and frequency transfer in engineered LANs could be one of the charters
for TICTOC.

		//Doug