Re: [Time] [OPSAWG] Strong Technology Dependency
Tom Taylor <tom.taylor.stds@gmail.com> Mon, 30 June 2014 13:05 UTC
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Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 09:05:00 -0400
From: Tom Taylor <tom.taylor.stds@gmail.com>
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To: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>, "time@ietf.org" <time@ietf.org>, "opsawg@ietf.org" <opsawg@ietf.org>
References: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845491A9@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330016F2E@OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA84573094@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933001D499@OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845756DA@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457B68F@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com>
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Cc: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
Subject: Re: [Time] [OPSAWG] Strong Technology Dependency
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I think one problem here is over-use of the word "connectivity". Aren't you really testing for reachability? Tom Taylor On 30/06/2014 3:39 AM, Qin Wu wrote: > Thanks for comments on the following proposed table or figure as follows: > Greg>MPLS-TP uses LSP ping or, though more rarely, ICMP as-is. In fact, MPLS-TP largely re-used all IP/MPLS OAM though adding some functionality, i.e. RDI, CV, and PCS. > Greg>Again, as in previous comment, MPLS-TP OAM does not present itself “different OAM technology”. > > [Qin]: You are right, I realized both LSP Ping and MPLS-OAM use MPLS technology while ICMP uses IP technology. I will fix this in the update. > > Greg>should add OWAMP and TWAMP for Performance Measurement in the following table > > [Qin]: Agree. > > Greg>Echo(Ping) in fact belongs continuity check. > > [Qin]: Agree. > > Greg>Echo(Ping) does not provide CV as IP is connectionless and has no definition of Misconnection defect. > > [Qin]:Not sure about this. RFC7276 said LSP Ping is used for end-to-end > Connectivity Verification between two LERs. > Therefore I think IP Ping can also provide CV, what am I missing? > > Greg>Actually can be used for BW, Delay and Loss measurement, though very rough. > > [Qin]: Agree and will add this into the following table. > > Greg>Not, BFD and BFD Echo do not provide CV for the same reason as for ICMP – do definition of Misconnection defect. Besides, BFD Echo doesn’t work for multi-hop case but only for single hop. > > [Qin]: Not sure about this. RFC7276 said SP Ping is used for end-to-end > Connectivity Verification between two LERs. > Since BFD Echo is similar to LSP Ping, I think BFD Echo also can provide CV. > > Greg>LSP Ping provides Continuity Check too > > [Qin]: Agree. > > Greg>All MPLS-TP OAM applicable to IP/MPLS as well > > [Qin]: Agree. > Greg>MPLS-TP provides CC through use of BFD > Greg>MPLS-TP provides CV through use of BFD and extension to provide Source ID. > > [Qin]: Besides using BFD, is there any other way to provide CC or CV? > > > 发件人: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] 代表 Qin Wu > 发送时间: 2014年6月25日 16:06 > 收件人: time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org > 抄送: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > 主题: [OPSAWG] Strong Technology Dependency > > Hi, Mohamed: > Thanks for details review to problem statement draft > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-00 > and update I sent to you. > > Regarding strong technology dependency issue, > Section 4.2 gives an address scheme example to explain why the existing OAM mechanism has strong > Technology as follows: > “ > > Addressing scheme is a good example for an issue > > that has a high price for being non-generic. Ping of IPv4 and IPv6 > > looks different in the addressing scheme as well in the ICMP > > indication field, but they have the same OAM functionalities. > ” > You asked to clarify the exact point of this paragraph. > I think what this paragraph said is > For IP ping, IPv4 Ping protocol [RFC792] and IPv6 ping protocol [RFC4443] use different IP technology but share the same OAM function. > > But I agree with you address scheme is not a typical example for strong technology dependency. > I think the typical example is ICMP, LSP Ping and MPLS-TP OAM are using different network technology but share the same OAM > functionality, i.e., Path Discovery. Another example is ICMP,BFD,LSP Ping and MPLS-TP OAM are using different network technology but share > the same functionality, i.e., continuity check. > > The following figure shows common OAM functionalities shared by various existing OAM protocols. > |--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+ > | |Continuity | Connectivity| Path | Performance| > | | Check | Verification| Discovery | Monitoring | > +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+ > | | | | | | > | ICMP | | Echo(Ping) | Traceroute | | > | | | | | | > +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+ > | | | | | | > | BFD | BFD | BFD Echo | | | > | | Control | | | | > +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+ > | LSP | | | | - Delay | > | Ping | | Ping | Traceroute | - Packet | > | | | | | Loss | > +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+ > | | | | | | > | IPPM | | | | | > | | | | | | > |--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+ > | MPLS-TP| | | | | > | OAM | CC | CV | Traceroute | -Delay | > | | | | | -Packet | > | | | | | Loss | > +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+ > > Hope this clarifies. > > Regards! > -Qin > > 发件人: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> [mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com] > 发送时间: 2014年6月24日 22:13 > 收件人: Qin Wu > 主题: RE: Unified oam BOF proposal request in IETF 90 > > Hi Qin, > > Please find attached a first set of comments. > > Cheers, > Med > > > > _______________________________________________ > OPSAWG mailing list > OPSAWG@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg >
- [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Qin Wu
- [Time] Issue of OAM information Information gathe… Qin Wu
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Qin Wu
- Re: [Time] Issue of OAM information Information g… Qin Wu
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Huub van Helvoort
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Gregory Mirsky
- Re: [Time] [OPSAWG] Strong Technology Dependency Gregory Mirsky
- Re: [Time] [OPSAWG] Strong Technology Dependency Tom Taylor
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Qin Wu
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Qin Wu
- Re: [Time] [OPSAWG] Strong Technology Dependency Huub van Helvoort
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Huub van Helvoort
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Qin Wu
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Gregory Mirsky
- Re: [Time] Issue of OAM information Information g… Gregory Mirsky
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Qin Wu
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Gregory Mirsky
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Sam Aldrin
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Qin Wu
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Sam Aldrin
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Qin Wu
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Sam Aldrin
- [Time] 答复: Strong Technology Dependency Qin Wu
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Gregory Mirsky
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Sam Aldrin
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Gregory Mirsky
- Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency Sam Aldrin
- Re: [Time] Issue of OAM information Information g… Qin Wu
- Re: [Time] Issue of OAM information Information g… Gregory Mirsky