[tlp-interest] Deleware corporation
John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> Mon, 23 May 2022 14:31 UTC
Return-Path: <john-ietf@jck.com>
X-Original-To: tlp-interest@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tlp-interest@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F705C15EB53 for <tlp-interest@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 23 May 2022 07:31:02 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.898
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2jJqfxjTcxdm for <tlp-interest@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 23 May 2022 07:31:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from bsa2.jck.com (bsa2.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E067C15EB24 for <tlp-interest@ietf.org>; Mon, 23 May 2022 07:31:00 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [198.252.137.10] (helo=PSB) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <john-ietf@jck.com>) id 1nt95H-000IrC-DV for tlp-interest@ietf.org; Mon, 23 May 2022 10:30:59 -0400
Date: Mon, 23 May 2022 10:30:53 -0400
From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
To: tlp-interest@ietf.org
Message-ID: <9C177CD462AC2A589877E49F@PSB>
X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 198.252.137.10
X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: john-ietf@jck.com
X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on bsa2.jck.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tlp-interest/87EAz2MIXgfy2UsstA_Ea0Y84HY>
Subject: [tlp-interest] Deleware corporation
X-BeenThere: tlp-interest@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34
Precedence: list
List-Id: Discussion of proposed revisions to the Trust Legal Provisions <tlp-interest.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tlp-interest>, <mailto:tlp-interest-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tlp-interest/>
List-Post: <mailto:tlp-interest@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tlp-interest-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tlp-interest>, <mailto:tlp-interest-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 May 2022 14:31:02 -0000
Hi. I hope this will be addressed on the call, but just to get it in queue... The proposal to move from a Trust to a Corporation seems entirely sensible given the liability situation and ownership of trademarks, etc., issues already explained. The materials that have been distributed claim that, other than that change of legal organizational arrangements, minimal changes are being made. However to me as a layperson and observer, it would appear that the minimal change would be to move from a Virginia Trust to a Virginia Corporation. IANAL, but I believe that the shield of the leadership/ Trustees/ Board Members from personal liability and ability to own assorted things, trademarks included, would accrue to an Corporation, at least in the US and any of the several states where I have some small familiarity with the rules. So, why Delaware other than that they seem to go out of their way to solicit this type of activity and whatever revenues go with it? I note that the draft bylaws still call out ISOC and CNRI as "Settlors" and that both are, AFAIK, organized in Virginia. While I understand that, to at least some attorneys, Delaware is the default for these sorts of things, the only rationale for the choice in the documents I've read is that it is where the IETF LLC is incorporated. To the extent to which the community wishes to continue to keep a clear dividing line between the LLC and the Trust, that co-location of the corporate structures is not an obvious asset. The co-location issue is trivial as long as neither the Trust nor the LLC get itself in trouble or decide they need to close down but, should either occur, one can imagine it would not be an asset. And, of course, if someone could promise that the Trust would never get into difficulty that would raise liability issues, I assume (again from the distributed materials) that we would not be doing this. It also occurs to me that Delaware might be more flexible about where offices, officers, directors, etc., are located than Virginia, but I have no idea whether that is the case. Unless it is and unless there is some strong positive reason for having both the Trust and the LLC incorporated in the same state, I don't understand the reason for the change in jurisdiction/venue and, given the statements about minimal change, would appreciate a clear (to a layperson) explanation. thanks, john
- [tlp-interest] Deleware corporation John C Klensin
- Re: [tlp-interest] Deleware corporation John Levine
- Re: [tlp-interest] Deleware corporation Nathaniel Donahue