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Wed, 21 Apr 2021 02:03:25 +0000 Received: from DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2d8d:9193:d3f3:6cc6]) by DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2d8d:9193:d3f3:6cc6%5]) with mapi id 15.20.4042.024; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 02:03:25 +0000 To: Carrick Bartle , Martin Thomson Cc: tls@ietf.org References: <38f4c969-90d8-478e-9c3d-0bdf538dabed@www.fastmail.com> <37c84b96-324b-46a6-a3c0-57eb275f439b@www.fastmail.com> <674A5578-85C8-4134-B9AA-E9D287131701@icloud.com> <4837796a-4528-4df4-aa8b-383ff3229cb6@www.fastmail.com> <53B5686F-0A64-426B-8EC4-6A996F169EAC@icloud.com> From: Stephen Farrell Message-ID: <7f1f6634-4895-3989-1960-30e617e3e81b@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 03:03:22 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1 In-Reply-To: <53B5686F-0A64-426B-8EC4-6A996F169EAC@icloud.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="FZaAeGy5xLBxKpMJgHMpodwBDMbskgSlt" X-Originating-IP: [2001:bb6:5e5e:b458:d434:7f5b:99fd:e7e5] X-ClientProxiedBy: DU2PR04CA0084.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:232::29) To DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:77::15) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from [IPv6:2001:bb6:5e5e:b458:d434:7f5b:99fd:e7e5] (2001:bb6:5e5e:b458:d434:7f5b:99fd:e7e5) by DU2PR04CA0084.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:232::29) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4065.21 via Frontend Transport; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 02:03:39 -0000 --FZaAeGy5xLBxKpMJgHMpodwBDMbskgSlt Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="JbiUBwFBmzjsqra7EDFDsgkQ0JDCpQiqD"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: Carrick Bartle , Martin Thomson Cc: tls@ietf.org Message-ID: <7f1f6634-4895-3989-1960-30e617e3e81b@cs.tcd.ie> Subject: Re: [TLS] Authenticating the client-facing server with an IP-based certificate References: <38f4c969-90d8-478e-9c3d-0bdf538dabed@www.fastmail.com> <37c84b96-324b-46a6-a3c0-57eb275f439b@www.fastmail.com> <674A5578-85C8-4134-B9AA-E9D287131701@icloud.com> <4837796a-4528-4df4-aa8b-383ff3229cb6@www.fastmail.com> <53B5686F-0A64-426B-8EC4-6A996F169EAC@icloud.com> In-Reply-To: <53B5686F-0A64-426B-8EC4-6A996F169EAC@icloud.com> --JbiUBwFBmzjsqra7EDFDsgkQ0JDCpQiqD Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------DD5CC327A8E5B823EE3D2F3C" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------DD5CC327A8E5B823EE3D2F3C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hiya, To answer Chris' initial question: I can't currently think of a real use-case where the client would need to authenticate an IP address for a client-facing server in the event that ECH decryption has been tried and failed. And, I very much sympathise with Martin's goal of simplifying if we can. (E.g. leave the public_name as-is and as we've got implemented, but drop the extensions field entirely - I don't think there's a shortage of code points for new extensions if the first ECH one doesn't quite do what's needed.) But I'm likely not the right person to ask - I'd guess that the people who might have a use-case for this are smaller hosters where the default listener on 443 is very minimal. I don't know how common those are, but I'd suspect they are fairly rare. And likely those with certs that have the exactly right IP address are even rarer. On 21/04/2021 02:48, Carrick Bartle wrote: >> I'm not sure what you are implying might be impossible. Are you >> suggesting that it might be impossible to get a name for which you >> could get a certificate? > No. I'm implying that if we don't allow clients to authenticate > client-facing servers with an IP-based certificate, ECH won't be > possible in cases where the client-facing server doesn't have a > name. In general, I'd prefer we get ECH deployed for some major use cases and not try fill in every possible niche at this point. ISTM the overall win here is that we end up with ECH working in many cases, but don't need all cases. And there's a danger that we get zero cases if we make it too complex. 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filename="OpenPGP_signature" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- wsF5BAABCAAjFiEEW7Wm6ldl0sWGPK4nWrL68XsXK+oFAmB/h+oFAwAAAAAACgkQWrL68XsXK+rS AxAAjdLmsbrS5tgko5A9GKgrKXIqmfoxDwnmyyMSkCgauZ5CiVr+dgJxVoU+ETz8P3q7Xh6mUWbb RU8XTjjwoSb19DJc6YVSoo7eT2rMxfyz1P+NeWTIppZrSpbs930iDxZ4Ec/Rbcq2aoGEzkiwm1xR WGxQIdKZi/W6rHSMGEyn0T4ROboCm53bfy7VhH3YG7aJy7VwTMi5FchL2NFyhvEKfnL8ijNulM2X TZrP82KfOllQCxlDqrROgArtOM8IHeBC0g3/nqyg4pvV9keYFaxoHoooC5S0tZ/7vWgD0lSiEfCp RmiIAgPqESWTHPQt9S8dQ1vrbVM8rTq35BBPB6Ee0lSsTNjQrzbmDUIo9bIYSUGXIGYZVPNe9Xa0 68WUh8CSL8j3bCy5W7JHoSD2eUnDoKHy2huOV96i7cyVDnsxJ9kXUA4YDO52Myb8FtbUe9BsS8sQ rr8zHNXGZyyOHGRfyku11Svh5zLKhVtiWSPP1Ta44n3IZhk9cMgtIAwGw7/9bqArNFbd5y84wBuN yELI/wtwYCza9WeBqZXd10KswKsnbvWP3aMBxg4eqblHlt9axC3bYW9bMmtAKZUyCaInEHoUC0Zq Z2wJVJGDORZGb2p7qvrEmAXGHqzhZVPO4ZxZfnRvROH3hxHG7kpH2l+oDjtdte7ChFwnI7aaIfjT FLU= =hwLm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --FZaAeGy5xLBxKpMJgHMpodwBDMbskgSlt--