Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process
Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> Fri, 28 March 2014 11:08 UTC
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Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 11:08:13 +0000
From: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
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To: Peter Gutmann <pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz>, "<tls@ietf.org>" <tls@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process
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Peter, On 03/28/2014 03:32 AM, Peter Gutmann wrote: > I haven't said much so far because it seems the 1.3 effort is making > steady progress towards the design-by-committee mess that make IKEv1/IPsec > such a winner, I'm sure others who were more involved will correct me, but wasn't the IKEv1 fun in large part caused by not being able to pick a winner from not-hugely-different competing proposals, with a sprinkling of not easily handled personalities and other competing interests involved? Quoting a recent mail from Jeff Schiller [1]: "The real (or at least the first) problem with the IPSEC working group was that we had a good and simple solution, Photuris. However the document editor on the standard decided to claim it (Photuris) as his intellectual property and that others couldn’t recommend changes without his approval. This effectively made Photuris toxic in the working group and we had to move on to other solutions. This is one of the events that lead to the IETF’s “Note Well” document and clear policy on the IP associated with contributions. Then there was the ISAKMP (yes, an NSA proposal) vs. SKIP. As Security AD, I eventually had to choose between those two standards because the working group could not generate consensus. I believed strongly enough that we needed an IPSEC solution so I decided to choose (as I promised the working group I would do if they failed to!). I chose ISAKMP. I posted a message with my rationale to the IPSEC mailing list, I’m sure it is still in the archives. I believe that was in 1996 (I still have a copy somewhere in my personal archives)." But anyway, while we don't need to reprise the details of that bit of history, I'm sure we all do agree that not repeating the IKEv1 fun is a high priority goal here and I'm also sure the chairs and many WG participants are taking that into account. (And I'm quite sure the WG just don't want to end up with me having to toss a coin to pick a winner:-) So, FWIW, the chairs process plan seems reasonable to me but its also good to see the WG discussing that. S. [1] http://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2013-September/017391.html
- [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Sean Turner
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Trevor Perrin
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Trevor Perrin
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process t.petch
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Douglas Stebila
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Dan Harkins
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Adam Langley
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Trevor Perrin
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Bill Frantz
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Dan Harkins
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Bill Frantz
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Dan Harkins
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Bill Frantz
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Dan Harkins
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Dan Harkins
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process Andy Lutomirski
- Re: [TLS] TLS 1.3 process henry.story@bblfish.net