Re: [TLS] draft-green-tls-static-dh-in-tls13-01

Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> Sat, 08 July 2017 17:17 UTC

Return-Path: <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
X-Original-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A63DB126C83 for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 8 Jul 2017 10:17:28 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.302
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M0tID2sCYtY1 for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 8 Jul 2017 10:17:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DDB3412EC4E for <tls@ietf.org>; Sat, 8 Jul 2017 10:17:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0EB1BE53; Sat, 8 Jul 2017 18:17:23 +0100 (IST)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie
Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yOtht54OyFv9; Sat, 8 Jul 2017 18:17:22 +0100 (IST)
Received: from [10.244.2.100] (95-45-153-252-dynamic.agg2.phb.bdt-fng.eircom.net [95.45.153.252]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C2DB9BE24; Sat, 8 Jul 2017 18:17:22 +0100 (IST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1499534242; bh=9XcRI3qiVNzmzxhahRmL+99kKmGCLWT3qOtMH0+FFSM=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=pK5S7OxUt1Gu/2WskwXd2ssCUUIM+pqkc/7vCiDpKpOHSFDAEGI2uavRrhFqiiV+z Mt3nOpgyoB53DhgofwZvoDVCRjZzegvCWN7j9z2Yh+e5E8BjnliR14ao10UyuTGDVJ k+yV7qhsw1mOXHu5GJdRt+khE04XZ3MBN8ERgxK0=
To: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>
Cc: IETF TLS <tls@ietf.org>
References: <CAPCANN-xgf3auqy+pFfL6VO5GpEsCCHYkROAwiB1u=8a4yj+Fg@mail.gmail.com> <CAL02cgRJeauV9NQ2OrGK1ocQtg-M2tbWm2+5HUc4-Wc8KC3vxQ@mail.gmail.com> <71E07F32-230F-447C-B85B-9B3B4146D386@vigilsec.com> <39bad3e9-2e17-30f6-48a7-a035d449dce7@cs.tcd.ie> <CAJU8_nXBFkpncFDy4QFnd6hFpC7oOZn-F1-EuBC2vk3Y6QKq3A@mail.gmail.com> <f0554055-cdd3-a78c-8ab1-e84f9b624fda@cs.tcd.ie> <A0BEC2E3-8CF5-433D-BA77-E8474A2C922A@vigilsec.com> <658a6b50-54a7-600a-2f6a-480daf2321dc@cs.tcd.ie> <F830F0DA-F3F1-4A61-8B42-100D31E6F831@vigilsec.com> <1ebb85c3-842e-36f6-ccd5-da7074342118@cs.tcd.ie> <E639C60A-D90C-46C2-9A18-5D02D6EBD9E4@vigilsec.com> <d16833ed-3b6b-3685-e109-1673f69c67a5@cs.tcd.ie> <5CF364CB-96E1-4103-9C83-81187897F5F3@vigilsec.com> <4f733022-dabb-53a2-2eb7-425134c137f8@huitema.net> <98EB3DAA-DEC7-4D5A-96C4-872A345C7B34@vigilsec.com>
From: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
Openpgp: id=D66EA7906F0B897FB2E97D582F3C8736805F8DA2; url=
Message-ID: <9b3c3630-cba9-661b-a9de-a5a51e39ff8e@cs.tcd.ie>
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2017 18:17:21 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <98EB3DAA-DEC7-4D5A-96C4-872A345C7B34@vigilsec.com>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="20PIFE1LF6gxWJQuAGU6Bhwhgbjp7u3pK"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/1UFZS_qE5pk4L_iuTO-X-O2x39Y>
Subject: Re: [TLS] draft-green-tls-static-dh-in-tls13-01
X-BeenThere: tls@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls/>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2017 17:17:29 -0000


On 08/07/17 18:05, Russ Housley wrote:
> In draft-green-tls-static-dh-in-tls13, there is not one.  I have not
> thought about it in these terms.  The server, if acting in bad faith,
> can always release the client's traffic.
Is it bad faith if the server is compelled to enable this
wiretap interface? For a wiretapper this is a great scheme,
as they only need to force it to be turned on and accept a
tiny bit of data and then they can pick up those packets
from anywhere without having to deal with problems at the
web server end. So no need to even re-imburse the web server
for the intercepted access anymore.

Honestly, doesn't that clearly mean a conflict with 2804?
And one that cannot afaics be avoided.

S.