Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3
Henrick Hellström <henrick@streamsec.se> Sun, 23 November 2014 00:34 UTC
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Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 01:33:56 +0100
From: Henrick Hellström <henrick@streamsec.se>
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To: Watson Ladd <watsonbladd@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3
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On 2014-11-22 23:15, Watson Ladd wrote: > On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 3:31 AM, Henrick Hellström <henrick@streamsec.se> wrote: >> On 2014-11-22 01:57, Watson Ladd wrote: >>> >>> Was the TLS 1.3 draft written by a cryptographer? No. >>> Has it been reviewed by cryptographers? Unclear. >>> Are the mechanisms secure? Unknown. >>> Is it easy to analyze TLS 1.2? No. >>> Was TLS 1.2 secure? No. >>> Has TLS 1.3 fixed flaws in TLS 1.2? Some: session_hash remains >>> unincluded, but the record layer is finally fixed. >> >> >> I think such discussions would benefit from the basic premise that "secure" >> is a relative notion. It is completely pointless to ask if a protocol is >> secure or not secure, unless you first present an exhaustive list of >> security claims. That is, you can't ask if TLS 1.3 is secure or not, without >> first describing what security is to be expected from different scenarios. > > It's clear what the security claims of TLS are be: a TLS connection > between two parties ensures that data sent between them isn't > intercepted or manipulated, and that they are who they claim to be. > This is a fairly standard notion, clearly present in research by the > late 80's, and intuitively sensible. > > Of course, past versions of TLS haven't provided it. OK, but in such case, the problem with BEAST would be the browser implementation dependent violation of same-origin policy constraints, and not part where the CBC state is predicted. Your requirements imply a strict same-origin policy. If such a policy is violated, the problem is that SSL/TLS is used in a scenario that transcends its security claims, and not that the protocol is flawed.
- [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Henrick Hellström
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Henrick Hellström
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Hanno Böck
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Henrick Hellström
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Ralph Holz
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Jeffrey Walton
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Henrick Hellström
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Henrick Hellström
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Florian Weimer
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Brian Smith
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Bodo Moeller
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Joseph Salowey
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Ryan Sleevi
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Peter Gutmann