Re: [TLS] preliminary AD review of draft-ietf-tls-oldversions-deprecate-05

Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com> Tue, 12 November 2019 17:57 UTC

Return-Path: <sayrer@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D39612098C; Tue, 12 Nov 2019 09:57:01 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.997
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OPqR1-MW3JXU; Tue, 12 Nov 2019 09:56:58 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-il1-x136.google.com (mail-il1-x136.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 548001208F5; Tue, 12 Nov 2019 09:56:58 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-il1-x136.google.com with SMTP id u17so11479634ilq.5; Tue, 12 Nov 2019 09:56:58 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Fwv2VCr6eFbzzOv1FQxw/YFcNkgMSd4Iu9grLzsiUjU=; b=C3Ip84w9E6bEPodzwtBXatvt9S4Xa2Yp5y93zxJanojQq3Nyu/rH/Ys3hvksziI2ao ckjvhy7bGtdxiGXNY4S1/Zj6UVKJ+PC04bzyUyS3art8BbkEFQiWty5E5x+fVpxRCj7j 4xU+R3VwxMIQOL9M0RX3DCwcFQ8rlnN4X0DMYaE7ueYQ/mZ5xFhnPM4JLwaalflauzqU 79kUjLg4mgRIYy0xh6Sel60GbpYOyzCwCfLkr9yI4OCs0yqM+T69oH4E3uz497g++1rv uPOtZ9eMHeilCu75ObIGg1DhCGSWnWzHO/+THG2DUD6xaI4bfq60GqYTY5nH0lc1UEVw ntDA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Fwv2VCr6eFbzzOv1FQxw/YFcNkgMSd4Iu9grLzsiUjU=; b=j/UhdVQRIaE1uDrbZO/Did6VUTWcWWg738TZtUvv+oE0ynDbjSRSqqdXHrnwTbwfp0 UnqmjA3lAblNL5cCYGejCO/cBiQ9OgHHS6Qdk5T9e66hd/Okl1ceuf3W/ATC9Zv41mK+ 9VndRd0SAasefnznRBgRS8qk/ZWUHIEZgRZOXjlJRJyDvrqaIx0Gt8VPwZLtVmOUJADD 8gQsh84hwUGV//+gpd7ibQ88Gi98+fL+1fqHzFobvHCD85m1yFAdMqX/iJnanj6A5FEp bOjHoja4oMWRg/XxsVclTJz8hrs7QJmQoKq1gZASsVHHeEJpt+jUorENyfDF+lhX0hfk zWwA==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWXcKlgeuIegeDtvxYdyv7yM08bf8Z6wflFRFuD+TbFh0ey33Pr 6eSQYxRWtex1mEKuAuLnG64FV1ALVg36n64/ivY=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqytZ6QuK1nNjRu6CUsxY8Aeyqazjc92ic/j1prS+C7ZtHc8svbr2G73XIeGeBqyNmGGj3NpwbAAEm6WS6UqIQ8=
X-Received: by 2002:a92:5d49:: with SMTP id r70mr38631221ilb.257.1573581417505; Tue, 12 Nov 2019 09:56:57 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <20191111195325.GE32847@kduck.mit.edu> <0df737cb-4947-4926-2c6d-dd3583356a2c@cs.tcd.ie> <D701674A-28EF-4B0B-8F57-6C6B4D83D37A@akamai.com> <CAChr6Swr8PWN=HHrGfnZ+5_8rd2YyfC7SE2+9tBk2D8DNSQMeg@mail.gmail.com> <CABcZeBOgJnoG42RSDiwTF0qMnnryo6HOyYtca32WuuPHkBNX_w@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CABcZeBOgJnoG42RSDiwTF0qMnnryo6HOyYtca32WuuPHkBNX_w@mail.gmail.com>
From: Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 09:56:46 -0800
Message-ID: <CAChr6SzJQwuo7DFjA2P_rrGni2JfRm0s1cXNvSAtgqU8sigc2w@mail.gmail.com>
To: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Cc: "Kaduk, Ben" <bkaduk@akamai.com>, "tls@ietf.org" <tls@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-tls-oldversions-deprecate.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-tls-oldversions-deprecate.all@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006a6c43059729f95f"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/4xh9veIoj0jWqysipgPGJVm1sN0>
Subject: Re: [TLS] preliminary AD review of draft-ietf-tls-oldversions-deprecate-05
X-BeenThere: tls@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls/>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 17:57:01 -0000

On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 7:58 AM Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>; wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 2:43 PM Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>; wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 12:27 PM Kaduk, Ben <bkaduk@akamai.com>; wrote:
>>
>>> The one concrete one that I remember (and can't attribute to the
>>> HTMLized version dropping stuff) is RFC 7030 only in the header.
>>>
>>> I guess we can check what we want to do to DTLS as well, as RFC 6347 is
>>> listed as Updates:-ed but that's the DTLS 1.2 spec.  (6347 itself
>>> confusingly claims in the body text to "update DTLS 1.0 to work with TLS
>>> 1.2" but has an "Obsoletes: 4347" header.)  I don't see what specifically
>>> we update in 6347.
>>>
>>
>>  I think the text in question is the last paragraph of RFC 6347's
>> Introduction:
>>
>> "Implementations that speak both DTLS 1.2 and DTLS 1.0 can
>>    interoperate with those that speak only DTLS 1.0 (using DTLS 1.0 of
>>    course), just as TLS 1.2 implementations can interoperate with
>>    previous versions of TLS (see Appendix E.1 of [TLS12] for details),
>>    with the exception that there is no DTLS version of SSLv2 or SSLv3,
>>    so backward compatibility issues for those protocols do not apply."
>>
>> This draft says "don't interoperate" in this situation.
>>
>
> I don't typically get too exercised about what appears in these metadata
> headers, but I don't actually think this updates 6347. The statement there
> is still true, we just tell you not to do it.
>

Well... I think the clearest definition of "updates" is in RFC 2223:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2223#section-12

"... e.g., an addendum, or separate, extra information that is to be added
to the original document."

thanks,
Rob