Re: [TLS] [Cfrg] 3DES diediedie

Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@MIT.EDU> Thu, 25 August 2016 02:31 UTC

Return-Path: <kaduk@mit.edu>
X-Original-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25B1012D0CF for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 24 Aug 2016 19:31:57 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.768
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.768 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.548, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_RED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7xiF0BNnm4Mw for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 24 Aug 2016 19:31:55 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-2.mit.edu (dmz-mailsec-scanner-2.mit.edu [18.9.25.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C057D12D09A for <tls@ietf.org>; Wed, 24 Aug 2016 19:31:54 -0700 (PDT)
X-AuditID: 1209190d-cfbff70000005edd-ac-57be589977a1
Received: from mailhub-auth-2.mit.edu ( [18.7.62.36]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 88.80.24285.9985EB75; Wed, 24 Aug 2016 22:31:53 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) by mailhub-auth-2.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.9.2) with ESMTP id u7P2Vq91022461; Wed, 24 Aug 2016 22:31:53 -0400
Received: from multics.mit.edu (system-low-sipb.mit.edu [18.187.2.37]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id u7P2Vn7T020339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 24 Aug 2016 22:31:52 -0400
Received: (from kaduk@localhost) by multics.mit.edu (8.12.9.20060308) id u7P2Vnit000179; Wed, 24 Aug 2016 22:31:49 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 22:31:49 -0400
From: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@MIT.EDU>
To: Tony Arcieri <bascule@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAHOTMV+r5PVxqnSozYyqJqq_YocMKV06aAa-43t+5Huzh7Lo=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.1.10.1608242231290.5272@multics.mit.edu>
References: <CAHOTMV+r5PVxqnSozYyqJqq_YocMKV06aAa-43t+5Huzh7Lo=A@mail.gmail.com>
User-Agent: Alpine 1.10 (GSO 962 2008-03-14)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII"
X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrGIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixG6nojszYl+4Qd9kA4tLj1uYLLp/HGSy +HS+i9GB2WPnrLvsHkuW/GTymLzxMFsAcxSXTUpqTmZZapG+XQJXxvw18gUNLBVnz5xhaWCc y9zFyMEhIWAicfeWcxcjF4eQQBuTxKk5h1khnI2MEpt/f2eDcA4xSSxv64fKNDBKzHs9DyjD ycEioC0x7+YvFhCbTUBFYuabjWBxESB76c89YHFmAReJiz0NjCC2sICSxOHmZmYQm1MgUGL/ q5lgNbwCDhKfTp4Es4UEAiQObpzDBGKLCuhIrN4/BapGUOLkzCdQM7Uklk/fxjKBUWAWktQs JKkFjEyrGGVTcqt0cxMzc4pTk3WLkxPz8lKLdI30cjNL9FJTSjcxgoKUU5J3B+O/u16HGAU4 GJV4eHes2hsuxJpYVlyZe4hRkoNJSZQ3vAkoxJeUn1KZkVicEV9UmpNafIhRgoNZSYT3d+C+ cCHelMTKqtSifJiUNAeLkjjv9m/t4UIC6YklqdmpqQWpRTBZGQ4OJQnejHCgRsGi1PTUirTM nBKENBMHJ8hwHqDhy0FqeIsLEnOLM9Mh8qcYdTkW/Li9lkmIJS8/L1VKnPdxGFCRAEhRRmke 3BxwctnNpPqKURzoLWHebpBRPMDEBDfpFdASJqAlLfd3gywpSURISTUwRugqXvJMZdZq21qz 8y1n4s3dyvc3lq1+xcjNz77Vw9vM6/uaZ/NsPaPu13/W+WwsNO3i+UPd64suhRxub5vw/9DL OP9dPMEm4uHqq9NueZv8WzN7795FulPXvDsndPzk48A7OoVf552QdMr+/dDsZumRn3Hy8odF bNe6VeacVv5m+0O88mCqtRJLcUaioRZzUXEiAEcXwz8JAwAA
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/5BxXVuf-SXN-a8qE9tyhL_jyiuc>
Cc: "cfrg@irtf.org" <cfrg@irtf.org>, "<tls@ietf.org>" <tls@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [TLS] [Cfrg] 3DES diediedie
X-BeenThere: tls@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls/>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 02:31:57 -0000

On Wed, 24 Aug 2016, Tony Arcieri wrote:

> This attack was published today[*]:
>
> https://sweet32.info/
>
> I bring it up because I think the threat model is similar to the threats
> that lead to RC4 "diediedie"
>
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7465
>
> Should there be a 3DES "diediedie"?

Well, there is
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kaduk-kitten-des-des-des-die-die-die-00
but it is not really what you are looking for, I think, given the
recipient list on the message.

-Ben