[TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-super-jumbo-record-limit-02 (Ends 2025-11-25)
Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net> Fri, 21 November 2025 04:06 UTC
Return-Path: <mt@lowentropy.net>
X-Original-To: tls@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: tls@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DCBF8DBA258; Thu, 20 Nov 2025 20:06:16 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.799
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lowentropy.net header.b="NkBO01Sc"; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b="qMD1kYl4"
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7zAMrXv54Rsl; Thu, 20 Nov 2025 20:06:15 -0800 (PST)
Received: from fout-a7-smtp.messagingengine.com (fout-a7-smtp.messagingengine.com [103.168.172.150]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E6EA8DBA248; Thu, 20 Nov 2025 20:06:15 -0800 (PST)
Received: from phl-compute-04.internal (phl-compute-04.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailfout.phl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F5B6EC0193; Thu, 20 Nov 2025 23:06:09 -0500 (EST)
Received: from phl-imap-15 ([10.202.2.104]) by phl-compute-04.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 20 Nov 2025 23:06:09 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lowentropy.net; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm1; t=1763697969; x=1763784369; bh=iuFHVobK7mghZ0HQ7voBw9Gmyt71EkS2CHQ2DvLzirM=; b= NkBO01ScncowewKvoZVKCT9rUQTGeXiilxoBZj+UR36MC2sVdGlTvrHpWPYPhKN1 2YIWVjqKcWB23gkJHbZBRo1H3BaMtc+0HXJtG7u+hzM5PnipR3ptL+p/JYVj28vf IbnQ1nT/2e8rvDLe3ylho/3zzM8T6trWvTCWITw95BfIhsydXXXSx0mMcjj0Zrj4 t+wUriR1kS2g1tkRiwrAljiLNnWe3/4Me/S+V64k4EC2k+CmYnZ8yTt5DybXac5O Rhi04kQphhMt/qHSR/PXEx274a19i1MQZxZaRE+zi2DrvhTYhH0e5YlHHrM+Plww rjdPAwFBB1xCFAB6K5p4wQ==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from :in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :reply-to:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t=1763697969; x=1763784369; bh=i uFHVobK7mghZ0HQ7voBw9Gmyt71EkS2CHQ2DvLzirM=; b=qMD1kYl4dM2Lby/HV NaWr6AsR7CnMYRic1NWP7JwejE9rhCZJnE9rOsWO1/hQjyux6YpH/FuxAf1VHTD4 JOBUsI6xO69F6NxjaFKhiiqObTS0mx9O8oTKdR0CUqhPxzLSJnI6qan3eSOPi2ul X4p8lNBkd7GRPsjPaCu3E5jgb3zPq1b+9Qq2GDAviZ63jKmxkMMMJvG5kJjndH0T QDK8nC6cnVAj1KDzhH1D4GhgrWgkmLx065nC63BJ443j7kOJWFMqVx1/jmiCdqvo MR7nh8bKXoQk3bmmVnj3xsUjnlP7CWmkUEFMrVW/ao3tYSKS+tEQled4Fk7youWd QylyQ==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:MeUfaeVIuGLIwYvbeaxQ5k2PgbiFHnQ2tFByDXAR6YkbOLGO847qsA> <xme:MeUfaVabnz5Da0W49L7VdMQd7hvKr986NXrN1DKbLIlUpUuwZ5JNRjYyRKOKHCHDA DVfDpW18cbzmFZPPmd453JTp7psKg2laWIGdrtYnT0ADtu6BP85eQ>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeeffedrtdeggddvvdekleeiucetufdoteggodetrf dotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceu rghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujf gurhepofggfffhvffkjghfufgtgfesthejredtredttdenucfhrhhomhepfdforghrthhi nhcuvfhhohhmshhonhdfuceomhhtsehlohifvghnthhrohhphidrnhgvtheqnecuggftrf grthhtvghrnhepffehueelgfegheeiveffleetjeejffetveegleevgeeifeefffekjeeg feduhffgnecuffhomhgrihhnpehivghtfhdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpe dtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehmtheslhhofigvnhhtrhhophihrdhnvght pdhnsggprhgtphhtthhopeegpdhmohguvgepshhmthhpohhuthdprhgtphhtthhopegurh grfhhtqdhivghtfhdqthhlshdqshhuphgvrhdqjhhumhgsohdqrhgvtghorhguqdhlihhm ihhtsehivghtfhdrohhrghdprhgtphhtthhopehtlhhsqdgthhgrihhrshesihgvthhfrd horhhgpdhrtghpthhtohepthhlshesihgvthhfrdhorhhgpdhrtghpthhtohepshgvrghn sehsnhefrhgurdgtohhm
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:MeUfacbFawhH_c-YZYhYt0rd9wEQFnEWaj3gmW_jPfqEEubhTP1TZQ> <xmx:MeUfaebZSdPQnEHijtPjco_zevCv9cG4vA4yCq2FQin1NKJCibQc8A> <xmx:MeUfab94KBI91O0c2cNtl2Lh0JTr94-6dePjM5r9B70hJxR60ODPsA> <xmx:MeUfaVgR6-K4h0ob6SUkWTiAYJ4ZzX8bWCp7E-0iGmcuh-_SE0KbKA> <xmx:MeUfaSgXBorfaVCcREQ4MHaru6aw_NHAQu85BBEMsqKEaEulA6zgzhU0>
Feedback-ID: ic129442d:Fastmail
Received: by mailuser.phl.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 1190C78006C; Thu, 20 Nov 2025 23:06:09 -0500 (EST)
X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-ThreadId: AccS5kbevb7V
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2025 15:05:48 +1100
From: Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net>
To: Sean Turner <sean@sn3rd.com>, draft-ietf-tls-super-jumbo-record-limit@ietf.org, tls-chairs <tls-chairs@ietf.org>, tls@ietf.org
Message-Id: <a1c2a664-6312-4c4c-9578-f73438b21d41@betaapp.fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <176226814185.517610.18328497166055791127@dt-datatracker-5df8666cb-7l4w5>
References: <176226814185.517610.18328497166055791127@dt-datatracker-5df8666cb-7l4w5>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID-Hash: PPQKKBZCWZYGLMGZ2TLHIP33UWVHEWS2
X-Message-ID-Hash: PPQKKBZCWZYGLMGZ2TLHIP33UWVHEWS2
X-MailFrom: mt@lowentropy.net
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tls.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-super-jumbo-record-limit-02 (Ends 2025-11-25)
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/6DeHz-zXv46z9_yTZZvrfH6H-CM>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:tls-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:tls-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:tls-leave@ietf.org>
This seems OK to me. The document doesn't really say what "invalid" means for the length encoding. Does that mean the record is ignored, or does the connection break? I think that the answer is the former for DTLS, the latter for TLS. (Allowing the connection to break was probably a mistake in RFC 8449, but I think that was because of the possibility of layering on SCTP or other reliable medium.) It might be worth saying that receiving a record length that starts with 0b11 should be treated as though the record were over-sized. Error handling for that is well-specified. I would not worry about the size adjustments in the AEAD limits. Those 256 bytes don't change things at all and I think that the limits apply to plaintext sizes anyway (which can be up to 2^14. Typo: AES-CGM On Wed, Nov 5, 2025, at 01:55, Sean Turner via Datatracker wrote: > Subject: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-super-jumbo-record-limit-02 (Ends > 2025-11-25) > > This message starts a 3-week WG Last Call for this document. > > Abstract: > TLS 1.3 records limit the inner plaintext (TLSInnerPlaintext) size to > 2^14 + 1 bytes, which includes one byte for the content type. > Records also have a 3-byte overhead due to the fixed opaque_type and > legacy_record_version fields. This document defines a TLS extension > that allows endpoints to negotiate a larger maximum inner plaintext > size, up to 2^30 - 256 bytes, while reducing overhead. > > File can be retrieved from: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tls-super-jumbo-record-limit/ > > Please review and indicate your support or objection to proceed with the > publication of this document by replying to this email keeping tls@ietf.org > in copy. Objections should be motivated and suggestions to resolve them are > highly appreciated. > > Authors, and WG participants in general, are reminded again of the > Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) disclosure obligations described in BCP 79 > [1]. Appropriate IPR disclosures required for full conformance with the > provisions of BCP 78 [1] and BCP 79 [2] must be filed, if you are aware of > any. Sanctions available for application to violators of IETF IPR Policy can > be found at [3]. > > Thank you. > > [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bcp78/ > [2] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bcp79/ > [3] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc6701/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > TLS mailing list -- tls@ietf.org > To unsubscribe send an email to tls-leave@ietf.org
- [TLS] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-super-jumbo-re… Sean Turner via Datatracker
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-super-jumb… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-super-jumb… Ira McDonald
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-super-jumb… Magnus Westerlund
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-super-jumb… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-super-jumb… Yug Shah
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-super-jumb… Martin Thomson
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-super-jumb… Ilari Liusvaara
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-super-jumb… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-super-jumb… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-super-jumb… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-super-jumb… Valery Smyslov
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-super-jumb… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-super-jumb… Benjamin Kaduk
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-super-jumb… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-super-jumb… Magnus Westerlund