[TLS] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-usama-tls-risks-of-mlkem-01.txt
Ilari Liusvaara <ilariliusvaara@welho.com> Tue, 02 June 2026 10:19 UTC
Return-Path: <ilariliusvaara@welho.com>
X-Original-To: tls@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: tls@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56334F9244C6 for <tls@mail2.ietf.org>; Tue, 2 Jun 2026 03:19:44 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=ietf.org; s=ietf1; t=1780395584; bh=1NI93CyvkVbHV7Y+Vk/Zw6h0UJ4Ty6B23FV/UkNKAIk=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=hH2ipvI9BqnY8gMHxrS88PkI+xnsA68qfKYizavn+dI+zPdPZ3rKqnwgkfRCn7GI9 sAroYm0Td9C0AfQFXrciguxfcXQJyzL4+Q6MIH2ge/80rmF9+eCnk4NtZk4bQkIjMb yOghtnxPhZTq/RxvnjLOxFK1eo6BOV6fIrHCCoog=
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=welho.com
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tTpTvbrjgyv0 for <tls@mail2.ietf.org>; Tue, 2 Jun 2026 03:19:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp.dnamail.fi (sender001.dnamail.fi [83.102.40.178]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 87C1DF9244C1 for <tls@ietf.org>; Tue, 2 Jun 2026 03:19:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.dnamail.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53B63211489C for <tls@ietf.org>; Tue, 2 Jun 2026 13:19:36 +0300 (EEST)
X-Virus-Scanned: X-Virus-Scanned: amavis at smtp.dnamail.fi
Received: from smtp.dnamail.fi ([83.102.40.178]) by localhost (dmail-psmtp01.s.dnaip.fi [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10024) with ESMTP id FQLfZM5fbLOG for <tls@ietf.org>; Tue, 2 Jun 2026 13:19:35 +0300 (EEST)
Received: from LK-Perkele-VII2 (87-92-117-27.bb.dnainternet.fi [87.92.117.27]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: hliusvaa@dnamail.internal) by smtp.dnamail.fi (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BADB6211489B for <tls@ietf.org>; Tue, 2 Jun 2026 13:19:35 +0300 (EEST)
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp.dnamail.fi BADB6211489B
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=welho.com; s=2025-03; t=1780395575; bh=1NI93CyvkVbHV7Y+Vk/Zw6h0UJ4Ty6B23FV/UkNKAIk=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=ieQgPvbdpoRkH6e+gzjJcyYsFM7d7Ilkm3HOCAK32UcCJpRUd+l9UEKrFcJxinxH/ d+08RMxDLZf8B1vnLy84Gl6XGZiPBinocKzFWQyiQtJLgJolrBuZFhlp2HeNjrtEeC S+n5hasEpQ+6b3Lr/rl1q+H4SEIqQjLSXCJA9tH5Dd5P4idNrnQ0yKJN3QmokPvMMS MUaBLvezRpFAZ/zZIrIbZWmE8nF0QOrByvrtmz7vYuvB2mZwuWQ14OjWXQOrqKSvv7 b+R+yffRk99JstvZazsCRqIb+uUg7Vzuvn2I0ZcyPMd+UqAN2QbiKe+RMF9RT+T5iV fz0gQfI3NqKCw==
Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2026 13:19:34 +0300
From: Ilari Liusvaara <ilariliusvaara@welho.com>
To: "TLS@ietf.org" <tls@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <ah6uNuZDLn4cxQPP@LK-Perkele-VII2.locald>
References: <178004897406.1571084.15428249207754239073@dt-datatracker-5b4c8598b5-4ztf9> <b9a8212d-cfe0-402b-9a8a-f63c1712d1db@tu-dresden.de> <CAHxYnaNC8it-gRHZPc4n-tgqwmBp06gfhy18sO77wSEJGjSmaw@mail.gmail.com> <CAFN1edrFmOGkrNWg6yXMC5XiOBHOHeJdkHXu=Fh1HQD-+rF1RA@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
In-Reply-To: <CAFN1edrFmOGkrNWg6yXMC5XiOBHOHeJdkHXu=Fh1HQD-+rF1RA@mail.gmail.com>
Sender: ilariliusvaara@welho.com
Message-ID-Hash: ARX77DKY3MW2YEAHQFM2O4W7SNUEWH3O
X-Message-ID-Hash: ARX77DKY3MW2YEAHQFM2O4W7SNUEWH3O
X-MailFrom: ilariliusvaara@welho.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tls.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [TLS] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-usama-tls-risks-of-mlkem-01.txt
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/6wySJlNpHdGimSf-CL03bed6P9k>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:tls-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:tls-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:tls-leave@ietf.org>
On Mon, Jun 01, 2026 at 06:56:57PM +0200, David Stainton wrote: > I support initiating the FATT process here, and I support the work Usama is > doing to use symbolic models to better understand the protocol's security > properties. Even where existing proofs give us confidence, having an > explicit symbolic analysis of the standalone-KEM case is the kind of thing > that's worth doing rather than assuming, and there are clearly participants > willing to do it. I do not think there is any justification for doing FATT process for stand-alone ML-KEM, but not for X25519MLKEM768. Any flaw in integration of the former is highly likely to directly translate into a flaw in the latter — due to the hybrid property. However, I think it is extremely unlikely that any such flaws exist. Therefore I do not think either requires FATT process. -Ilari
- [TLS] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-usa… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft… Nathanael Ritz
- [TLS] Re: New Version Notification for draft-usam… Nadim Kobeissi
- [TLS] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft… Nathanael Ritz
- [TLS] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft… Nathanael Ritz
- [TLS] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft… Ilari Liusvaara
- [TLS] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft… David Stainton
- [TLS] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft… Jacob Appelbaum
- [TLS] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft… Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft… Ilari Liusvaara
- [TLS] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft… Peter C