Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox robustness
Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Wed, 08 November 2017 13:35 UTC
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From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2017 05:34:35 -0800
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To: Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos <nmav@redhat.com>
Cc: Watson Ladd <watsonbladd@gmail.com>, "tls@ietf.org" <tls@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox robustness
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On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 1:12 AM, Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos <nmav@redhat.com> wrote: > On Tue, 2017-11-07 at 16:32 -0800, Eric Rescorla wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 4:25 PM, Watson Ladd <watsonbladd@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 4:05 PM, Jana Iyengar <jri@google.com> > > > wrote: > > > > FWIW: In my experience middleboxes don't ossify based on what the > > > spec says, > > > > they ossify based on what they see on the wire. So, if common > > > > implementations send CCS in a particular way, that's what will > > > get --- and, > > > > I'll argue, what has gotten --- ossified. I also agree with David > > > and Eric > > > > that compatibility mode shouldn't be required because QUIC > > > doesn't need it. > > > > > > What does compatibility mode mean here? > > > > It means: > > > > 1. Send the fake session_id > > 2. Send a bunch of spurious CCS values. > > > > > > > If we end up with having two > > > slightly different versions of TLS 1.3, one that looks more like > > > TLS > > > 1.2 and the other that does not, that doesn't seem like a good > > > thing > > > to me. > > > > Well, the idea is that this is a purely local decision by one side. > > Which increases the cost of TLS1.3 implementation and testing by > introducing different handshake state machines. It doesn't introduce different handshake state machines, because you just ignore the CCS. > Why not negotiate that > CCS addition with an extension and have it defined outside the TLS 1.3 > spec? That actually does introduce different state machines. -Ekr I understand the concerns of the browser "community" on being > 100% backwards compatible with middle boxes, but the TLS1.3 standard is > more than just browsers. If 100% compatibility is required, there is a > very simple solution, use TLS 1.2. > > regards, > Nikos > >
- [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox robus… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… David Benjamin
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Yuhong Bao
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Jana Iyengar
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… David Benjamin
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Tapio Sokura
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… David Benjamin
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Yuhong Bao
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Yuhong Bao
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Yuhong Bao
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Andrei Popov
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Yuhong Bao
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Alex C
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] PR#1091: Changes to provide middlebox r… Alex C