[TLS] Re: draft-connolly-tls-mlkem-key-agreement

Loganaden Velvindron <loganaden@gmail.com> Sun, 15 December 2024 07:28 UTC

Return-Path: <loganaden@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C37BC16940C for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 14 Dec 2024 23:28:47 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.107
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.107 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0uNwslyMD11Z for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 14 Dec 2024 23:28:43 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-ot1-x331.google.com (mail-ot1-x331.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::331]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62C91C14F6A8 for <tls@ietf.org>; Sat, 14 Dec 2024 23:28:43 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-ot1-x331.google.com with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-71e16519031so1630543a34.1 for <tls@ietf.org>; Sat, 14 Dec 2024 23:28:43 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1734247722; x=1734852522; darn=ietf.org; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=TIFNFPOTeVYWKsaXLCJCOo4ZEZU3r21GKW0pQcrCYJ0=; b=gEDU47zo6gjYNqdlMcW9jK9DFO/sSQZqGt0i7dqFJOTNNXDNNCnJQA5ZIEUJDiDLxh JiqQJes5mILB8ltQIvt3RM64A19orgkHdATkXPlPiIjunx7g7eS9PA1BoiEP6T8NQcdY hqylrE6t0SzGIzlhzr9Y7ftbp+qUm3ThNILUHYFaj9rBQLIKkxU55r8U3sj/KX1LQgS3 D3X1PsVMabOqjscFkoCdy3pVN1jX8izQQAqj1yAeDcTASjVXC9bI6uLolo/HVIrzzjGb Tk4B5OGmvEk0Bjjr+A0sVeG5qzHRfmLIMTipIhMB8j7OZfcPILuOJrU5YxgK7ai2z7FZ bqrw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1734247722; x=1734852522; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=TIFNFPOTeVYWKsaXLCJCOo4ZEZU3r21GKW0pQcrCYJ0=; b=fohI0FXPwgaGrKx1SwV2MaL3H1QXMauwMHuKkMoswlxOADxaPw36uVIU97hBEm7MTh SQFs8I3mV63viIS+hoovxTPsh8XrJRiO/kJqisaCjHXmrbqLnX3D2HUnKgH9FOVfqolq T5OiztUDCEChmLkVAt+93G6KGYlbe251BrAuN1Row5HvUK3D1QRZG7w3++w+iUN2OIbs E8SneCzU8ruUcNsunmROI77LZL2zAI7c1a0TZ3XypAQEfkB5nzeddxazSaqzRR8SD6fh CxDrtp3M/9EJ6Z7qYoRxpqmxBFCCPjXPm1C6HdDnfIzDnJ3FtenXiDV4CcFuJGkjRQds MMdQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxbUU8AcE+3tcTQzXdB4eOCM20LswdgC05IDi1Mx1kWZSrfyPMy 3cdV96ZI/j/tSfVZQjLPpXHoFmZ3hvnLTk2+QCDuAI+PUSce0BrtYfb2qFsmQqHvNjmWS0hhjUo YWG5l4p51xEpT72KyvdvstYSCXzZrIA==
X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncscXKvbXD7QUc3ee8wsnmMVq3ULS6eWKfpgalKM3izF7Q91SeKUi1MX/fb0zY5 DFO6lkPS7kZAeuWTFfEG10nZ2ZB64OtDVFo6vBNPoELnm4Kr5B9WsAKr48jvjW/O+1F4f
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEFa6a4SwS7jQ9v0T6wWgeTD+f1fVIuZ4iEMrXRwheZ2wqM/23I88d2GQjF+e3wzNwe9kYjgXt7GV3gL3YpbJ0=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:3108:b0:710:a425:d6b8 with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-71e3beb2739mr3982194a34.14.1734247722324; Sat, 14 Dec 2024 23:28:42 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAChr6SwZ4ZpsaGGin-mk90CSXKis7Pe5J-2Um5tiaxBHwKRTQA@mail.gmail.com> <20241214021528.652899.qmail@cr.yp.to> <CAOgPGoB8w-vjVckdnE8T5M=Pw8H-GeVyePWFiUTUWXDp9akCSA@mail.gmail.com> <Z1064C9u18E-zRcd@chardros.imrryr.org>
In-Reply-To: <Z1064C9u18E-zRcd@chardros.imrryr.org>
From: Loganaden Velvindron <loganaden@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2024 11:28:30 +0400
Message-ID: <CAOp4FwRGA8hFPFnoOVwbCatZ8Wbn+9H-Z=aCm4EQmwiL=q5CEA@mail.gmail.com>
To: tls@ietf.org
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Message-ID-Hash: GC5Y4SOCDBAXWCS23M2H77NIZXHFQQJE
X-Message-ID-Hash: GC5Y4SOCDBAXWCS23M2H77NIZXHFQQJE
X-MailFrom: loganaden@gmail.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tls.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [TLS] Re: draft-connolly-tls-mlkem-key-agreement
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/8v4bnYm9e0NNTnUvy6Ob8Xv4Y44>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:tls-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:tls-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:tls-leave@ietf.org>

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 at 12:00, Viktor Dukhovni <ietf-dane@dukhovni.org> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 08:24:24PM -0800, Joseph Salowey wrote:
>
> > You continue to violate list policy with unprofessional commentary on other
> > participants' motivations and repeatedly raising points that are out of
> > scope.  Please stop this behavior.  This is the last warning before we will
> > take action and temporarily ban you from the list; see BCP 94 [0].
> >
> > [0] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc3934
>
> I personally find this threat excessive under the circumstances, however
> forceful, or insistent on being heard, Dan may be at times, history has
> shown that he is often enough ultimately proved right, years or decades
> later.  However "inconvenient", IMHO his voice should not be suppressed.
>
> If his strong view is that pure PQ KEMs (probably not just
> ML-KEM/Kyber), are too novel to be responsibly relied on without a
> classical fallback, then he should IMHO able to forcefully make that
> case.
>
I also think that this escalated quickly. I would suggest a peaceful resolution
is found off-list around beer, good food and a nice and quiet beach :-)

Maybe TLS WG needs to do an interim meeting in Mauritius to solve
thorny issues  :-)