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[TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybrid ECDHE-MLKEM Key Agreement for TLSv1.3

John Mattsson <john.mattsson@ericsson.com> Thu, 27 February 2025 13:23 UTC

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From: John Mattsson <john.mattsson@ericsson.com>
To: "D. J. Bernstein" <djb@cr.yp.to>, "tls@ietf.org" <tls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybrid ECDHE-MLKEM Key Agreement for TLSv1.3
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2025 13:23:27 +0000
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Subject: [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybrid ECDHE-MLKEM Key Agreement for TLSv1.3
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Dan:

Your ”issues” did not make sense in LAMPS and they do not make sense in TLS:


  1.  The draft does not specify anything that is MTI for TLS, (currently it is RECOMMENDED=N)
  2.  The is no IPR disclosures on the draft, if you want the help the owners of the alleged patent even more, you should make a third party IPR disclosure .
  3.  ML-KEM by reference does not limit IETF change control. TLS WG can specify any changes it want to ML-KEM.

I suggest that the chairs ignore these non-issues.

John

From: D. J. Bernstein <djb@cr.yp.to>
Date: Thursday, 27 February 2025 at 12:53
To: tls@ietf.org <tls@ietf.org>
Subject: [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybrid ECDHE-MLKEM Key Agreement for TLSv1.3
During a LAMPS discussion of another ML-KEM draft, I started tracking
two BCP 79 compliance issues triggered by the patent situation, with a
structured presentation of the arguments and counterarguments:

    https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcr.yp.to%2F2025%2Fbcp-79-issues.html&data=05%7C02%7Cjohn.mattsson%40ericsson.com%7C6b90663342654100eda908dd572553ec%7C92e84cebfbfd47abbe52080c6b87953f%7C0%7C0%7C638762540007009022%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=jCcTYM50%2FOBDt9xxyf1t81NMxkSkopdvZIQdreDrRM4%3D&reserved=0<https://cr.yp.to/2025/bcp-79-issues.html>

As far as I can see, the same considerations apply to this TLS draft.

The easy way to resolve the first issue is the "modify draft to allow
alternatives to Kyber" fix, which can be applied after adoption, so it's
not an argument against adoption.

However, the second issue can't be similarly deferred if change control
has to be transferred by adoption time---which is my understanding of
how IETF operates. BCP 79 doesn't make this schedule clear, but RFC 7221
says "Remind current draft owners that they are transferring change
control for the document to the IETF".

---D. J. Bernstein

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