Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS
Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net> Mon, 01 June 2015 21:20 UTC
Return-Path: <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
X-Original-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78B3C1A0013 for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 1 Jun 2015 14:20:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.5
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0t6v00svVaH6 for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 1 Jun 2015 14:20:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from che.mayfirst.org (che.mayfirst.org [209.234.253.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 074BA1A000E for <tls@ietf.org>; Mon, 1 Jun 2015 14:20:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from fifthhorseman.net (unknown [38.109.115.130]) by che.mayfirst.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A8AB8F984; Mon, 1 Jun 2015 17:20:36 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by fifthhorseman.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 861331FF5D; Mon, 1 Jun 2015 17:20:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
To: Peter Gutmann <pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz>, "noloader@gmail.com" <noloader@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73AB02AA8F@uxcn10-tdc05.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
References: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73AB029727@uxcn10-tdc05.UoA.auckland.ac.nz> <CAH8yC8=F3jJgEzFQSN=ZMvoC4zunAsfHPs1k2km9dvFJ0bvg2g@mail.gmail.com> <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73AB02AA8F@uxcn10-tdc05.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
User-Agent: Notmuch/0.20 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2015 17:20:14 -0400
Message-ID: <87k2vncei9.fsf@alice.fifthhorseman.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/ABmUJsEOSsJ6nZGtdwH8zQHdZE0>
Cc: "<tls@ietf.org>" <tls@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS
X-BeenThere: tls@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/tls/>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2015 21:20:41 -0000
On Sun 2015-05-24 03:12:00 -0400, Peter Gutmann wrote: > Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> writes: > >>GnuTLS with its Lim-Lee primes causes me a lot of problems because they >>cannot be validated. > > Actually the problem isn't GnuTLS (hey, I use Lim-Lee primes as well!), it's > the fact that TLS uses the PKCS #3 format rather than the DSA format, so > you've got nice verifiable values for which you have to throw away the > parameter used to verify them and send them in an unverifiable format. Having > said that, there's a pretty simple fix, define an extension that acts like the > existing propose/accept extensions that signals a change in DH values to the > DSA form (p, q, g) rather than PKCS #3 form (p, g). And for TLS 1.3, use the > DSA form by default, not the PKCS #3 form. If we're still shipping arbitrary groups across the wire, then adding (q) to the data over the wire not only increases the size of the handshake (by the size of q) but now the receiving peer has to verify that: (a) p is prime (b) q itself is prime (c) p is actually a Lim-Lee prime either that, or they can skip the checks and cross their fingers. Standardizing on known safe prime moduli seems simpler and easier and less likely to include some steps that people will be tempted to skip for speed. --dkg
- [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Tom Ritter
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Aaron Zauner
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Santiago Zanella-Beguelin
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Yuhong Bao
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Karthikeyan Bhargavan
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Florian Weimer
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Santiago Zanella-Beguelin
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Yngve N. Pettersen
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Antoine Delignat-Lavaud
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Florian Weimer
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Florian Weimer
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Santiago Zanella-Beguelin
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Florian Weimer
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Santiago Zanella-Beguelin
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Santiago Zanella-Beguelin
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Aaron Zauner
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Aaron Zauner
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Santiago Zanella-Beguelin
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Aaron Zauner
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Santiago Zanella-Beguelin
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Santiago Zanella-Beguelin
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Santiago Zanella-Beguelin
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Dan Brown
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Dan Brown
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Jeffrey Walton
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Jeffrey Walton
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Santiago Zanella-Beguelin
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Kurt Roeckx
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Karthikeyan Bhargavan
- Re: [TLS] Another INRIA bug in TLS Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] Another INRIA bug in TLS Andrei Popov
- Re: [TLS] Another INRIA bug in TLS Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] Another INRIA bug in TLS Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Tony Arcieri
- Re: [TLS] Another INRIA bug in TLS Jeffrey Walton
- Re: [TLS] Another INRIA bug in TLS Tanja Lange
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Tanja Lange
- Re: [TLS] Another INRIA bug in TLS Andrey Jivsov
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Santiago Zanella-Beguelin
- Re: [TLS] Another INRIA bug in TLS Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Santiago Zanella-Beguelin
- Re: [TLS] Another INRIA bug in TLS Karthikeyan Bhargavan
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Kurt Roeckx
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Kurt Roeckx
- Re: [TLS] Another INRIA bug in TLS Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Santiago Zanella-Beguelin
- Re: [TLS] Another INRIA bug in TLS Santiago Zanella-Beguelin
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Jeffrey Walton
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Karthikeyan Bhargavan
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Tanja Lange
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Santiago Zanella-Beguelin
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Santiago Zanella-Beguelin
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Andrey Jivsov
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Karthikeyan Bhargavan
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Karthikeyan Bhargavan
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Jeffrey Walton
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Andrei Popov
- Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Another INRIA bug in TLS Nico Williams