IETF Logo Mail Archive

[TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Use of ML-DSA in TLS 1.3

Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net> Tue, 22 April 2025 00:20 UTC

Return-Path: <mt@lowentropy.net>
X-Original-To: tls@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: tls@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C73D71F175BA for <tls@mail2.ietf.org>; Mon, 21 Apr 2025 17:20:52 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.799
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lowentropy.net header.b="BckYzJKX"; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b="fKmAh7+4"
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PPP32MEacEGx for <tls@mail2.ietf.org>; Mon, 21 Apr 2025 17:20:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from fhigh-b3-smtp.messagingengine.com (fhigh-b3-smtp.messagingengine.com [202.12.124.154]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3BE21F175B3 for <tls@ietf.org>; Mon, 21 Apr 2025 17:20:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from phl-compute-06.internal (phl-compute-06.phl.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailfhigh.stl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 651CA254022A; Mon, 21 Apr 2025 20:20:51 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from phl-imap-15 ([10.202.2.104]) by phl-compute-06.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 21 Apr 2025 20:20:51 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lowentropy.net; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type :date:date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm3; t=1745281251; x=1745367651; bh=X5mQLjWUtXRM6Rfbl+cssFe+mo3Ip12R ZOg1SecBAwY=; b=BckYzJKXH4dLa5TI1Zy10agVhd9OoC+meclGeCz4O6M8xWZV FgOEKZ5TK8BFqf0ruLvsogC33wdRZTv7RJlZd2SmVRDpbe7SU28LYvqc9ZoFof7V 5JNl+IuCkrUoHtM5ZqPtrrlgl9lF22FIR6w1WigwdEfuOC9tQ4WQIpBNH8vrNVSv fT10InOLlloBzWtAr6LqEb1N/OExZEchhzP/zCUZ32z2hQnObtDmrFviQ3C3x75p jgrrTMPLRf56MxVcPzxvkIgo+LR/psbDlSJlrbI2Vc6U5Rsy/tDfZZEwEtg9EZHu njHv2MP5PMV5/NOgZ78euuUbE+Z95Ypf+3qxdg==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; t=1745281251; x= 1745367651; bh=X5mQLjWUtXRM6Rfbl+cssFe+mo3Ip12RZOg1SecBAwY=; b=f KmAh7+4j+OsqXt60T12xk5vhLbHdl7R+bW9XzlfAcMYhkWJf2JYCTOg8L3tO0NkU HMhyl3suIRY6BoDknqztYl4giXoUAlRTaZJUUv8oTWiMxVsLKNF2V5HN0j7MUDTv 0gh+L6pCD90y7fpngEb9QWe1PPAYHiXJdCcIrIqFKZj9t/Y+2wcQr7lGy7GZL+9z 616Xmk56frnTaE+U7CLSy0EGGob3JvxV+Jp96sez8U68QXCE73rgBdk/dOH3pEuZ BKxQvpNYGVZNkzTQ5HK5VxCIJNi5Rbh8wQV9P1PNvUTjHYBwxY0dXmYoZxM64uKo ixCgZk/FXk2xGVl2StyCA==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:4uAGaPQ5Q0kJGV7r56BnZjOBFRtKQ6FHil7faXJg6VG-lmqp7kPkog> <xme:4uAGaAwBl-StFtbhRlfHkDPiJ35y06dAt0zNXGsaTz7e9DAx53eIGLyVhJdizVfgQ EtAHrhvpOuUpSp2jc0>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeefvddrtddtgddvgedvvdekucetufdoteggodetrf dotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggv pdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpih gvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujfgurhepofggfffhvfevkfgjfhfutgfgsehtqhertder tdejnecuhfhrohhmpedfofgrrhhtihhnucfvhhhomhhsohhnfdcuoehmtheslhhofigvnh htrhhophihrdhnvghtqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpefgudffleffgeduleeihfefleej vdeggedtffeuteeghfegfeejfeehffehudetudenucffohhmrghinhepihgvthhfrdhorh hgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepmhht sehlohifvghnthhrohhphidrnhgvthdpnhgspghrtghpthhtohepfedpmhhouggvpehsmh htphhouhhtpdhrtghpthhtohepthhlshesihgvthhfrdhorhhgpdhrtghpthhtohepvghk rhesrhhtfhhmrdgtohhmpdhrtghpthhtohepshgvrghnsehsnhefrhgurdgtohhm
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:4uAGaE2SrFWDS1SdY_2h6G5KuLtUGhbcRAmX7vmCAvnUFXU-SATPhg> <xmx:4uAGaPDkym-GmetA1QdO1g1U71JYKJSo4cO4qx8jvENJ8k2wQ6Q6jw> <xmx:4uAGaIjelky54X3fYnTqXHH5RwEb7bamQzR0lPdGLIihojSqRYsXMQ> <xmx:4uAGaDqMcb77hhOQpG7-VD5d0gh-Os6j--wJ1hqHgmkS8kQ7yrpYVQ> <xmx:4-AGaP7y6KrujwjVHaxXNPCpkacjlDuhTWxMoRqI_CFADSVL8oyk_A73>
Feedback-ID: ic129442d:Fastmail
Received: by mailuser.phl.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id C82B478006C; Mon, 21 Apr 2025 20:20:50 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-ThreadId: Tbcd46e4a8843908c
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2025 10:20:26 +1000
From: Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net>
To: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>, Sean Turner <sean@sn3rd.com>
Message-Id: <5aa5a676-df71-461e-b918-a15c67a9af55@betaapp.fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CABcZeBMDKGQtMMaKASsV74U7p-vXQr8Fj+AbqAjHwpsQJY_B9Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <07CB46EC-758E-4204-901A-CC8812B33A5F@sn3rd.com> <CABcZeBMDKGQtMMaKASsV74U7p-vXQr8Fj+AbqAjHwpsQJY_B9Q@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-ID-Hash: FLYEFYFIILOUD2GIAADC5ZTKRS2VOATD
X-Message-ID-Hash: FLYEFYFIILOUD2GIAADC5ZTKRS2VOATD
X-MailFrom: mt@lowentropy.net
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tls.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: TLS List <tls@ietf.org>
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Use of ML-DSA in TLS 1.3
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/AHNwYoGY9mL0-SwHcKDPM2qYjXg>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:tls-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:tls-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:tls-leave@ietf.org>

This is my view also.  This working group has a ton of active documents. Focus on the exigent threats (store and decrypt), rather than more speculative ones, might help us finish those faster.

On Wed, Apr 16, 2025, at 03:38, Eric Rescorla wrote:
> I do not think we should adopt this draft at this time. I would prefer 
> the WG focus its effort on key establishment.
> Once those documents are complete, we can reconsider signature.
>
> -Ekr
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2025 at 10:34 AM Sean Turner <sean@sn3rd.com> wrote:
>> We are continuing with our WG adoption calls for the following I-D:
>> Use of ML-DSA in TLS 1.3 [1]; see [2] for more information about this tranche of adoption calls. If you support adoption and are willing to review and contribute text, please send a message to the list. If you do not support adoption of this draft, please send a message to the list and indicate why. This call will close at 2359 UTC on 29 April 2025.
>> 
>> Reminder:  This call for adoption has nothing to do with picking the mandatory-to-implement cipher suites in TLS.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Joe and Sean
>> 
>> [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tls-westerbaan-mldsa/
>> [2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/KMOTm_lE5OIAKG8_chDlRKuav7c/
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TLS mailing list -- tls@ietf.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to tls-leave@ietf.org
> _______________________________________________
> TLS mailing list -- tls@ietf.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to tls-leave@ietf.org

v2.30.2 | Report a Bug | By Email | System Status