Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt HKDF PRF for TLS 1.3
Sean Turner <turners@ieca.com> Wed, 01 April 2015 21:21 UTC
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From: Sean Turner <turners@ieca.com>
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Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2015 17:21:03 -0400
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To: Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos <nmav@redhat.com>
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Cc: tls <tls@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt HKDF PRF for TLS 1.3
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On Apr 01, 2015, at 14:53, Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos <nmav@redhat.com> wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- >> This message is to confirm the consensus reached @ the IETF 92 TLS session in >> Dallas and at the TLS Interim in Seattle to make the TLS 1.3 PRF be an >> HKDF-based PRF (see >> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc5869/?include_text=1). >> Please indicate whether or not you agree with the consensus by 2015-04-17. >> If not, please indicate why. Also, please note that we’re interested in >> uncovering new issues not rehashing issues already discussed. > > I believe the question is totally unwarranteed. No-one has presented any argument > on why the TLS PRF is not sufficient for its purpose. The only arguments presented > are theoretical advantages of HKDF, which are fine, but do they add value to TLS? > Does the advantages of HKDF translate into weaknesses of the TLS PRF? Both ekr and I queued the whole discussion up with there’s "nothing really wrong" with the PRF as far as we know. The discussion in Dallas starts about 2:31:15 on audio stream - listen for a muffled ekr saying "oh god": http://www.ietf.org/audio/ietf92/ietf92-oak-20150326-0900-am1.mp3 At about 2:34:47 of the audio stream, Hugo discuses some of the “sub-optimal” aspects of the current PRF. > So no matter the output of that poll the result will be an uneducated guess. In all cases > it is alarming to see the easiness with which the protocol is being rewritten completely. > Now its only similarity with TLS 1.2 is the TLS acronym. Would that rewrite bring value > in par with the efford needed for the rewrite? Would it make us safer in 2030 or are we > simply apply yesterday's technology today? I guess I don’t follow - the PRF changed in previous versions and we kept the “TLS” moniker. spt > regards, > Nikos
- [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt HKDF… Sean Turner
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] confirming the rooms consensus: adopt … Dan Harkins
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Russ Housley
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Brian Smith
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Sean Turner
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Sean Turner
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Yoav Nir
- [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt HKDF… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Michael StJohns
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Sean Turner
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Michael StJohns
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Michael StJohns
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Michael StJohns
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Hugo Krawczyk
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Andrey Jivsov
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Michael StJohns
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Hugo Krawczyk
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Hugo Krawczyk
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Michael StJohns
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Michael StJohns
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Michael StJohns
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Michael StJohns
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Michael StJohns
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Michael StJohns
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Michael StJohns
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Michael StJohns
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Hugo Krawczyk
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Sean Turner
- Re: [TLS] confirming the room’s consensus: adopt … Eric Rescorla