Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1.1"
mrex@sap.com (Martin Rex) Wed, 08 May 2019 00:32 UTC
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To: Hubert Kario <hkario@redhat.com>
Date: Wed, 08 May 2019 02:31:57 +0200
CC: mrex@sap.com, tls@ietf.org, Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net>
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From: mrex@sap.com
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Subject: Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1.1"
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Hubert Kario <hkario@redhat.com> wrote: >> >> Thanks to Peter Gutmann for the summary: >> >> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/g0MDCdZcHsvZefv4V8fssXMeEHs >> >> which you may have missed. > > yes, Joux paper also shows that attacking MD5||SHA1 is harder than attacking > SHA1 alone > > but that doesn't matter, what matters is _how much harder it is_ and Joux > paper says that it's less than a work factor of two, something also knows > as a "rounding error" for cryptographic attacks collision attacks and real-time 2nd preimage attacks on randomly keyed hashes are substantially different things. simple math seems hard. TLSv1.0 + TLSv1.1 both use (rsa, MD5||SHA1) TLSv1.2 (rfc5246) permitted (rsa, MD5) and allows (rsa,SHA1) if we assumed that there *existed* (it currently doesn't, mind you) a successful preimage attack on MD5 with effort 2^20 a successful preimage attack on SHA1 with effort 2^56 then if Joux would apply not just to multicollisons, but also 2nd preimage, then the efforts would be: TLSv1.2 (rsa,MD5) 2^20 TLSv1.2 (rsa,SHA1) 2^56 TLSv1.0 (rsa, MD5||SHA1) >= 2^57 (slightly more than the stronger of the two) Comparing TLSv1.0 (rsa,MD5||SHA1) 2^57 with TLSv1.2 (rsa,MD5) 2^20 A factor 2^37 is significantly more than "marginally stronger". If you are aware of successfull 2nd preimage attacks on either MD5 or SHA1, please provide references. -Martin
- [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1.1" Christopher Wood
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… John Mattsson
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Maarten Aertsen (NCSC-NL)
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Gary Gapinski
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Daniel Migault
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Loganaden Velvindron
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Roland Zink
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Christopher Wood
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… David Benjamin
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… David Benjamin
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Christopher Wood
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] WGLC for "Deprecating TLSv1.0 and TLSv1… Peter Gutmann