Re: [TLS] History of extensions
Nicolas Williams <Nicolas.Williams@sun.com> Thu, 12 November 2009 20:49 UTC
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Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 14:38:47 -0600
From: Nicolas Williams <Nicolas.Williams@sun.com>
To: Martin Rex <mrex@sap.com>
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Cc: tls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [TLS] History of extensions
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On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 09:36:09PM +0100, Martin Rex wrote: > Backwards signaling server->client that the server is updated is > a little more difficult because one would have to repurpose an element > of the ServerHello. If there really are SSL implemenations that fill > the unix_gmt_time with all random data (instead of just fuzzing the > lower bits of it), then that part requires a less "pure" approach. > > Maybe by confiscating a currently unused bit of the more tightly > controlled value ranges of other members of the ServerHello handshake > message (server_version.major, cipher_suite or compression_method). The whole point of my post was to point out that there is a way to do the server->client signaling without changing a single bit on the wire -- just the Finished message computations. Interestingly, that approach could even be used on initial connections to detect if the server will support secure re-negotiation _before_ the client ever tries it. > ...but actually, we wanted to Last Call Eric's proposal, didn't we? Yes. That's why I wrote "[i]f [my alternative proposal] means improved odds for interop, then you should consider it". If we have consensus that EKR's fix is sufficient, then we should just move forward with it. (I've not followed all of the SSLv3 sub-threads, so I'm not sure if my proposal would help w.r.t. SSLv3. I leave that to you to figure out.) Nico --
- [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello instead… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… David-Sarah Hopwood
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Michael D'Errico
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… David-Sarah Hopwood
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… David-Sarah Hopwood
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Michael D'Errico
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… David-Sarah Hopwood
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… David-Sarah Hopwood
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Michael D'Errico
- [TLS] TLSrenego - current summary of semantics an… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - current summary of semantic… Steve Dispensa
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - current summary of semantic… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - current summary of semantic… Yair Elharrar
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - current summary of semantic… Michael D'Errico
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - current summary of semantic… Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - current summary of semantic… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - current summary of semantic… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - current summary of semantic… Michael D'Errico
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - current summary of semantic… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - current summary of semantic… Michael D'Errico
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - possibilities, suggestion f… Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - current summary of semantic… Pasi.Eronen
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - possibilities, suggestion f… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - possibilities, suggestion f… Yair Elharrar
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - possibilities, suggestion f… Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - possibilities, suggestion f… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - possibilities, suggestion f… Yair Elharrar
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - possibilities, suggestion f… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - possibilities, suggestion f… Rob P Williams
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - possibilities, suggestion f… Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - possibilities, suggestion f… Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - possibilities, suggestion f… Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - possibilities, suggestion f… Rob P Williams
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - possibilities, suggestion f… Michael D'Errico
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - possibilities, suggestion f… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - possibilities, suggestion f… Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - possibilities, suggestion f… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - possibilities, suggestion f… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] History of extensions Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] History of extensions Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Michael D'Errico
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] History of extensions Nicolas Williams
- Re: [TLS] History of extensions Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] History of extensions Nicolas Williams
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] History of extensions Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Protected Renegotiation -- refined proposal Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Michael D'Errico
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] Protected Renegotiation -- refined prop… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] History of extensions Nicolas Williams
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - possibilities, suggestion f… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Dr Stephen Henson
- Re: [TLS] History of extensions Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - possibilities, suggestion f… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Protected Renegotiation -- refined prop… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] History of extensions Nicolas Williams
- Re: [TLS] History of extensions Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] History of extensions Nicolas Williams
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - possibilities, suggestion f… Nasko Oskov
- Re: [TLS] History of extensions Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Redefine Finished message for TLS 1.3 ? Nelson B Bolyard
- Re: [TLS] Redefine Finished message for TLS 1.3 ? Nicolas Williams
- Re: [TLS] Redefine Finished message for TLS 1.3 ? Nelson B Bolyard
- Re: [TLS] Redefine Finished message for TLS 1.3 ? David-Sarah Hopwood
- Re: [TLS] History of extensions Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Protected Renegotiation -- refined prop… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Redefine Finished message for TLS 1.3 ? Nicolas Williams
- Re: [TLS] History of extensions Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] History of extensions David-Sarah Hopwood
- Re: [TLS] Redefine Finished message for TLS 1.3 ? Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Redefine Finished message for TLS 1.3 ? Michael D'Errico
- Re: [TLS] Redefine Finished message for TLS 1.3 ? Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] Redefine Finished message for TLS 1.3 ? Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Redefine Finished message for TLS 1.3 ? David-Sarah Hopwood
- Re: [TLS] Redefine Finished message for TLS 1.3 ? Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] Redefine Finished message for TLS 1.3 ? Martin Rex
- [TLS] A crazy idea Michael D'Errico
- Re: [TLS] A crazy idea Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] Redefine Finished message for TLS 1.3 ? Nelson B Bolyard
- Re: [TLS] A crazy idea Michael D'Errico
- Re: [TLS] Protected Renegotiation -- refined prop… Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] A crazy idea Nicolas Williams
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - possibilities, suggestion f… Bodo Moeller
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - possibilities, suggestion f… Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - possibilities, suggestion f… Joseph Salowey (jsalowey)
- Re: [TLS] A not-so crazy idea Michael D'Errico
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - possibilities, suggestion f… Bodo Moeller
- Re: [TLS] Redefine Finished message for TLS 1.3 ? Bodo Moeller
- Re: [TLS] TLSrenego - possibilities, suggestion f… Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] Redefine Finished message for TLS 1.3 ? Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Bodo Moeller
- Re: [TLS] Redefine Finished message for TLS 1.3 ? Bodo Moeller
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] A not-so crazy idea Nicolas Williams
- Re: [TLS] Redefine Finished message for TLS 1.3 ? Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Bodo Moeller
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Bodo Moeller
- Re: [TLS] A not-so crazy idea Yair Elharrar
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] A not-so crazy idea Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Nelson B Bolyard
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Bodo Moeller
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] assert TLSext in renego-ServerHello ins… Bodo Moeller
- Re: [TLS] Redefine Finished message for TLS 1.3 ? Nelson Bolyard