Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise security and data centre management
Viktor Dukhovni <ietf-dane@dukhovni.org> Thu, 06 December 2018 23:30 UTC
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From: Viktor Dukhovni <ietf-dane@dukhovni.org>
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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2018 18:30:18 -0500
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Subject: Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise security and data centre management
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> On Dec 6, 2018, at 4:08 PM, Andrei Popov <Andrei.Popov=40microsoft.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > Widespread deployment of draft-dkg-tls-reject-static-dh-01 and failing connections to "enterprise TLS" servers would probably qualify as "essential circumstances", at least to some operators. I don't think the TLS WG or IETF can win this skirmish. If some operators are set on session recording, they'll find a way, and the more obstacles they have to overcome the more likely they are to compromise security along the way. So while clients should not do anything special to support this, and the protocol should not change to adapt to the use-case, it might in fact be more productive to help the operators who need this arrive at an approach that minimizes risk. Explicitly trying to defeat what they're sure to do anyway does look like a wise approach to me. The operators could, for example, derive the (EC)DH private key from an HMAC of the client and server random with a secret key shared with the wiretap device. The client would never know, and the (EC)DH key would not look any different to an outside observer. The best we can probably do is publicize the risks, so that auditors are well aware of them and can highlight poor designs, and hope that some operators will decide they can do without such intercepts, or will use an approach that preserves as much security as possible. -- Viktor.
- [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise secu… Dmitry Belyavsky
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Tony Arcieri
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Dmitry Belyavsky
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Tony Arcieri
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Christian Huitema
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Christian Huitema
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Jonathan Hoyland
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Tony Arcieri
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Jonathan Hoyland
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Bret Jordan
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Benjamin Beurdouche
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Bret Jordan
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Bret Jordan
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Tony Arcieri
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … R duToit
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Christopher Wood
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Melinda Shore
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Andrei Popov
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Andrei Popov
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Tony Arcieri
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Andrei Popov
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Tony Arcieri
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Arnaud.Taddei.IETF
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Sean Turner
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Sean Turner
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Kurt Roeckx
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Ryan Sleevi
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Arnaud.Taddei.IETF