[TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybrid ECDHE-MLKEM KeyAgreement for TLSv1.3
"D. J. Bernstein" <djb@cr.yp.to> Fri, 14 March 2025 19:52 UTC
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Subject: [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybrid ECDHE-MLKEM KeyAgreement for TLSv1.3
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Alicja Kario writes: > NIST has selected HQC for standardisation this week... No idea about > its patent situation Interesting question. My tracking page lists HQC as being claimed by GAM. People have mostly heard about GAM as a lattice patent, but the patent is actually broader and originates in code-based cryptography. As confirmation, https://web.archive.org/web/20250314182134/https://csrc.nist.gov/csrc/media/Projects/post-quantum-cryptography/documents/round-4/final-ip-statements/HQC-Statements-Round4.pdf claims applicability of U.S. patent 9094189 and French patent 10/51190. However, that document also has a FRAND-RF commitment triggered by NIST standardization. Of course FRAND-RF can have poison pills, but https://web.archive.org/web/20221130033932/https://csrc.nist.gov/csrc/media/Projects/post-quantum-cryptography/documents/selected-algos-2022/nist-pqc-license-summary-and-excerpts.pdf doesn't report any poison pills, and at a cursory glance it seems to exempt not just Kyber but also HQC from the GAM patent. Maybe I'm missing something---NIST's latest report mentions just the future-FRAND-RF commitment without mentioning the existing license---but maybe the NIST patent negotiators back in 2022 did something right. On the other hand, this patent minefield is bigger than the GAM patent. The same license has different terms regarding patent 9246675, clearly allowing _only_ unmodified ML-KEM. As far as I can tell, even another version of Kyber (the 2017 version, the 2019 version, the 2020 version, or a future patched version) wouldn't be within this 9246675 license; merely being similar, like HQC, is definitely not enough to trigger the license. The question, then, is whether HQC is covered by 9246675. As always, the doctrine of equivalents says that patents cover not just what's literally claimed but also anything that's doing "substantially" the same thing, so a patent lawyer will pull out endless literature on similarities between HQC and the patent. NIST's report even feeds into this by saying that HQC is "similar in structure" to LPR, ML-KEM, etc. An HQC user targeted by 9246675 wins if the court doesn't accept the doctrine-of-equivalents argument. Otherwise I think there's some chance of success of an ensnarement defense. The way this works is that the court challenges the patent holder to retroactively expand the patent claims, and then the court will ask whether the expanded "hypothetical" claims (1) would also have been patentable and (2) literally cover HQC. It's not immediately obvious to me that the patent holder will be able to get past this. On the other hand, the patent holder has carte blanche to engage in retroactive creative writing, so thinking through all the possibilities in advance is labor-intensive. This analysis then has to be repeated for other patents in the same minefield, such as the Zhao patent that claims Kyber coverage. HQC was modified in October 2024, so any patent filed before then might apply. Patent applications typically aren't public until 18 months later. ---D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybrid EC… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] WG Adoption Call for Post-Qu… Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Christopher Wood
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Christopher Patton
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Joseph Birr-Pixton
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: WG Adoption Call for Pos… Mike Ounsworth
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: WG Adoption Call for Pos… Mike Ounsworth
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Martin Thomson
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: WG Adoption Call for Pos… Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Filippo Valsorda
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Russ Housley
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Christopher Wood
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Jan Schaumann
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… David Adrian
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Mike Shaver
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Jan Schaumann
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Loganaden Velvindron
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Arnaud Taddei
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Thom Wiggers
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Loganaden Velvindron
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Andrew Scott
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for Post-Quantum Hybri… Kris Kwiatkowski