Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-tls-oldversions-deprecate-05
Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Wed, 09 October 2019 12:22 UTC
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References: <156172485494.20653.307396745611384846.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <989F828F-B427-47A6-A114-4EAEA67D43D7@ericsson.com> <CABcZeBOCzwLDEUyiqkDG0Qqaf652_+j1KBsJQJcJk2Lew_9wCw@mail.gmail.com> <00C5D54E-40C7-4E95-AD2D-9BC60D972685@sn3rd.com> <5bcf3b7c-5501-70f0-4ce7-384f885c39e7@cs.tcd.ie> <6F040DD1-C2E2-4FD2-BB37-E1B6330230BD@ericsson.com> <149BDA3C-14CF-459F-90D4-5F53DBEF9808@iii.ca> <CAChr6Sx4AVjkoKWiD2-cT2ZBNg=mKzeOX603gVs0f7vQ_FgN7A@mail.gmail.com> <CABcZeBNOVOBifOSnWdxSDTLizUUUn6ctLrBT43CHK+4B7KWGiQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAChr6SzT3GqmidPbmVjmrZX=u1UpBee4e8K2C-zHuNHEqgB7uQ@mail.gmail.com> <CABcZeBOGjPYy9FaOzaf-bHKaoMtXpO0SjQO5RTx9fMUo3r8vUg@mail.gmail.com> <CAChr6SwjdhpL2jQgNVjjuLosa8ycZEi9rGHuZ=K8=ToRy-gfJw@mail.gmail.com> <CABcZeBOpOCONvoeOZ0ypfKTHA936RPxVMSO9g=QEN3mEPiy6ww@mail.gmail.com>
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From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2019 05:22:14 -0700
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To: Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
Cc: Cullen Jennings <fluffy@iii.ca>, "tls@ietf.org" <tls@ietf.org>, Sean Turner via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org>, IESG Secretary <iesg-secretary@ietf.org>, "tls-chairs@ietf.org" <tls-chairs@ietf.org>, John Mattsson <john.mattsson=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
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Subject: Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-tls-oldversions-deprecate-05
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On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 5:20 AM Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> wrote: > > > On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 10:29 AM Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 1:25 AM Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> wrote: >> >>> >>>>>> It seems strange to put DTLS 1.0 (based on TLS 1.1) into new >>>>>> documents. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> A few points. >>>>> >>>>> 1. It doesn't pull it in. There's no reference and there's just an >>>>> informative statement. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Shouldn't there be an informative reference? >>>> >>> >>> To what? >>> >> >> Hi, I missed this response. This discussion seems a bit tedious, but >> >> 1) it doesn't seem like a particularly valid claim to say that the >> document "doesn't pull" in DTLS 1.0 when the rationale for that claim is a >> missing reference. >> > > Well I suppose you're entitled to your opinion, but no, I don't think > that's true. We have a very specific meaning for normative dependency and > in no way would this be one. At most this would be an informative reference. > > In any case, this is not the proper place for this discussion. If you want > this document changed, you'll need to take it to the RTCWEB WG. > > >> This thread also has some other unusual claims: >> >> On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 7:34 PM Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> >> wrote: >> > we can't "UPDATE" an I-D. >> >> Not true. If you need to refer to something that's been IESG-approved but >> still in the RFC queue, you can leave a note for the RFC editor to update >> the reference to the eventual RFC number. >> >> On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 8:17 PM Sean Turner <sean@sn3rd.com> wrote: >> > You can change the text, but I do not believe it will change the >> implementations. >> >> If true, changing the text would seem to be uncontroversial. >> >> Anyway, leaving strange text like this DTLS 1.0 stuff in the webrtc >> document is one thing (although I'm surprised the IESG allowed it). >> Claiming that a document like draft-ietf-tls-oldversions-deprecate can't >> update documents from a concluded WG is another. >> >> If the IETF can't get consensus on actually deprecating DTLS 1.0, maybe >> something similar to the text from draft-ietf-rtcweb-security-arch should >> be added to draft-ietf-tls-oldversions-deprecate. >> >> "Earlier specifications required DTLS 1.0. Endpoints which support only >> DTLS 1.2 might encounter interoperability issues." >> >> That would seem to subvert the point of the draft--I think this is the >> point that the original post in this thread was making. >> > > When we agreed to discuss > adopt. this draft, there was an explicit discussion of the fact that this was the > IETF's opinion based on security and protocol maturity but that we expected > the transition to take longer in some domains than others, so I wouldn't > have a problem with that kind of text, as I think it's factually accurate > and implicit. > > -Ekr > > >> thanks, >> Rob >> >
- [TLS] Publication has been requested for draft-ie… Sean Turner via Datatracker
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… John Mattsson
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Sean Turner
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… John Mattsson
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Cullen Jennings
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… John Mattsson
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… John Mattsson
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… John Mattsson
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Sean Turner
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… John Mattsson
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Daniel Migault
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [TLS] Publication has been requested for draf… Rob Sayre