Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-tls-tls13-18
Ilari Liusvaara <ilariliusvaara@welho.com> Fri, 28 October 2016 16:24 UTC
Return-Path: <ilariliusvaara@welho.com>
X-Original-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED17B12961A for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 09:24:31 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.331
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.331 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.431] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id trDzyxfRnH7J for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 09:24:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from welho-filter4.welho.com (welho-filter4.welho.com [83.102.41.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD291129496 for <tls@ietf.org>; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 09:24:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by welho-filter4.welho.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 750A116226; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 19:24:28 +0300 (EEST)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at pp.htv.fi
Received: from welho-smtp3.welho.com ([IPv6:::ffff:83.102.41.86]) by localhost (welho-filter4.welho.com [::ffff:83.102.41.26]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tr3JAlqQSeiZ; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 19:24:28 +0300 (EEST)
Received: from LK-Perkele-V2 (87-92-51-204.bb.dnainternet.fi [87.92.51.204]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by welho-smtp3.welho.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 236092310; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 19:24:28 +0300 (EEST)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 19:24:26 +0300
From: Ilari Liusvaara <ilariliusvaara@welho.com>
To: Martin Rex <mrex@sap.com>
Message-ID: <20161028162426.GA25186@LK-Perkele-V2.elisa-laajakaista.fi>
References: <CAOgPGoChDnFf-4Vxm1S021MXHhGGpTjniD6+124B7off2RzO6w@mail.gmail.com> <20161028160003.B5CA61A56C@ld9781.wdf.sap.corp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <20161028160003.B5CA61A56C@ld9781.wdf.sap.corp>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12)
Sender: ilariliusvaara@welho.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/Mpt7rIVdsbSqKzg-XPf4vwDSAXU>
Cc: "tls@ietf.org" <tls@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-tls-tls13-18
X-BeenThere: tls@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls/>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 16:24:32 -0000
On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 06:00:03PM +0200, Martin Rex wrote: > Joseph Salowey wrote: > > There are two seriously backwards-incompatible changes in the > current proposal that provide zero value, but completely break > backwards-compatibility with existing middleware infrastructure. > > > (1) hiding of the TLS record content types. > Please leave the TLS record types (handshake/AppData/Alert/CCS) > clearly visible on the outside of the TLS records, so that > middleware protocol parsers (which interface to transport-free > TLS protocol stacks) can continue to work, and continue to > work efficiently. Hiding the types does have its benefits (and it is also used for zero-overhead padding scheme). And also, TLS 1.3 handshake is so darn different from TLS 1.2, that you couldn't do anything sane even if you had record types. > (2) hiding of the TLS extension SNI. > Right now it is perferctly fine to implement TLS extensions SNI > on the server completely outside the TLS protocol stack to route > to single-cert SNI-unaware backends. The current proposal > suggest to move TLS extension SNI into the encrypted part, if > my superficial reading of the draft is correct, so TLSv1.3 > will not fly with existing architectures where spreading of > TLS requests on the server-side based on TLS extension SNI > is done outside of the TLS protocol stack (i.e. bottleneck-less > without having to open TLS). Who actually cares about server-side SNI? And it wasn't like you could do anything useful with server-side SNI in TLS 1.2 either. You can still route connections on SNI, and it even works the same way it did in TLS 1.2 (so existing code works). -Ilari
- [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-tls-… Joseph Salowey
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Sean Turner
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Adam Langley
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Kaduk, Ben
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Kaduk, Ben
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… John Mattsson
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… John Mattsson
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Yuhong Bao
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Thomson