Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-tls-pwd

"Dan Harkins" <dharkins@lounge.org> Fri, 06 December 2013 02:25 UTC

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Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 18:24:59 -0800 (PST)
From: "Dan Harkins" <dharkins@lounge.org>
To: "SeongHan Shin" <seonghan.shin@aist.go.jp>
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Cc: "tls@ietf.org" <tls@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-tls-pwd
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On Thu, December 5, 2013 6:03 pm, SeongHan Shin wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> It is clear from this IPR Disclosures:
>
>          "[I]f this document...is adopted as an IETF standards
>           track RFC, AIST is prepared to grant a non-exclusive
>           royalty-free license for any conforming implementations
>           of the adopted version (as an IETF standards track RFC)
>           of this document."
>
> The below means that AugPAKE can be used royalty-free, but other schemes
> in the patent can not.
>
>          "Needless to say, this does not mean that all the claims
>           and the contents in the patent application
>           PCT/JP2009/062578 are covered with the non-exclusive
>           royalty-free license."

  No, what is says is that the "royalty-free" license does not necessarily
cover all the claims in the patent and anyone who implements it under
such a "royalty-free" license is still open to being sued by AIST.

  Maybe you should put a "Patent Infringement Considerations" section
in your draft to spell out exactly which claims are not covered by your
"royalty-free" license.

  Dan.

> Best regards,
> Shin
>
> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Dan Harkins <dharkins@lounge.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, December 5, 2013 5:22 pm, SeongHan Shin wrote:
>> > Dear all,
>> >
>> >>> Additionally, developments such as Elligator and AugPAKE hold
>> promise
>> >>> for protocols that have both security proofs *and* no IPR
>> encumbrance.
>> >>
>> >>https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2037/<
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2037/>
>> >
>> > As in the above IPR Disclosures, AugPAKE can be used royal-free for
>> any
>> > conforming implementations.
>> > The patent of AugPAKE was granted in Feb. and April of 2013 from Japan
>> and
>> > U.S. respectively.
>>
>>   No, it doesn't say "any conforming implementation" period. It says:
>>
>>          "[I]f this document...is adopted as an IETF standards
>>           track RFC, AIST is prepared to grant a non-exclusive
>>           royalty-free license for any conforming implementations
>>           of the adopted version (as an IETF standards track RFC)
>>           of this document."
>>
>> So it has to be a standards track RFC. But even that's not really
>> true because it goes on to say:
>>
>>          "Needless to say, this does not mean that all the claims
>>           and the contents in the patent application
>>           PCT/JP2009/062578 are covered with the non-exclusive
>>           royalty-free license."
>>
>> So even if it was a standards track document, AIST reserves
>> the right to still go after people to whom it granted this
>> "royalty-free" license. Anyone who took such a license should
>> get, or get better, legal counsel.
>>
>>   Dan.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> SeongHan Shin
> Research Institute for Secure Systems (RISEC),
> National Institute of Advanced Industrial Science and Technology (AIST),
> Central 2, 1-1-1, Umezono, Tsukuba City, Ibaraki 305-8568 Japan
> Tel : +81-29-861-2670/5284
> Fax : +81-29-861-5285
> E-mail : seonghan.shin@aist.go.jp
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>