[TLS] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-tls-reddy-composite-mldsa-00.txt

tirumal reddy <kondtir@gmail.com> Wed, 06 November 2024 08:29 UTC

Return-Path: <kondtir@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10B64C1519A7 for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 6 Nov 2024 00:29:22 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.104
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.104 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8CswEFKEavZ5 for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 6 Nov 2024 00:29:21 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-ed1-x52f.google.com (mail-ed1-x52f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 829CFC15199D for <tls@ietf.org>; Wed, 6 Nov 2024 00:29:21 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-ed1-x52f.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5cece886771so1085349a12.0 for <tls@ietf.org>; Wed, 06 Nov 2024 00:29:21 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1730881760; x=1731486560; darn=ietf.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=7WUp6Z7U8RMM5dNpHDdJ2npI6Wy4FNyRKClYDHiZtys=; b=d4m/rFTHv6U46Drmmxr5NZ8LrV0Ug/9/wDq5tsOY7GQP+F5UQhpBvUIavj0Tj/dptG 8O7J+UnjN/sA97QJSTydmbQ2THwtC24xuP9N6n+zd3pAP7id/VatzhGSUEpJ0oGCiZul vRo9IMae4771Ez6bpTGACPaIumdLsw1Ejn/j6kIYY1bjDv+QWvf7dsFT2BUOLfqhVyRF Zn+QKa/XLtme6afvwyFxvPNkR5axepBIOChdfygt2hxshrvLZjgWueGLkUL/4HEiNIIt MS2GYzmReAYmzDxkZaxb5GdvdgL2IAQeM3sLNhdUcYAFaSjy8zAHg/C28BqJAoQwW7CD Dycg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1730881760; x=1731486560; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=7WUp6Z7U8RMM5dNpHDdJ2npI6Wy4FNyRKClYDHiZtys=; b=Oc016oEN8OWVePIJa/Zwj2JwqH9YuOFt1quxxvlMGq1T/6MJ1cEE1pyDUdLQy1uLY/ 4uk2s0GSzNEWnsHYLbJE9HztHhCUDEhN1Y9ZnwRkfEo9uTL1hrpbbMX/+2mCQKMqv9EW I0dSZW8tNouEae5qoC3SpqyXR9r7W8ps0yi/f7XYPbklZ7XNPxdSsqKqxq3EdK2R+eWE 8eUUlFClc8jZpO8qGy9/rfai+fWTxTniF/1sEqLNJF5kTuNxzUyFLhkrVD5SNCRDQZ+h WDkoFgr4oaRUM77F02yr2grCH+XVfndF6YPYD3eqwVozr0sSWbpFiF113JVgR/u7v7Bl AViw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yxwg8nhVnNtE81ait6wBwA9h7wtfz6JJngEoSXurSvX+3oWDXXj y/oW/a1nOUWSDhaPmfIkvyb9/VNSUHY7JVWqWrzaGPilPD2kVBbRNu7Y7gdOv9zebdWAlxS3OPA ++aVayQUBRpM8mf0pD3dDi3DCCBU=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHJxpHFn7KPbVeKC0hl3MCjH3U8kkTrKVuZQroQnwC2P4BbYcWTf2TiD+DyRla0wX1ZxrxM/p/K9nMLTJp0Wjg=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:3487:b0:5cb:6715:3498 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5cef54fa699mr1811546a12.3.1730881759625; Wed, 06 Nov 2024 00:29:19 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <173059220278.350115.6583095374531712492@dt-datatracker-84cf84bdcc-hlxgg> <CAFpG3gcVZ184JX3FWjQo5CUi+MEnrNK7MWVB+iz7wMwp7oYrXg@mail.gmail.com> <Zyc3TQoGtAD345b3@LK-Perkele-VII2.locald>
In-Reply-To: <Zyc3TQoGtAD345b3@LK-Perkele-VII2.locald>
From: tirumal reddy <kondtir@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2024 13:58:43 +0530
Message-ID: <CAFpG3gdjm6KsFi84JngX7_q_wYWEe2JH_HRfZnk0pTLZ8DUUQA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Ilari Liusvaara <ilariliusvaara@welho.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006e50ab06263a50d6"
Message-ID-Hash: WXHYRQ5KKEGLAUVMQJ6ONW2ZRSEIOLRC
X-Message-ID-Hash: WXHYRQ5KKEGLAUVMQJ6ONW2ZRSEIOLRC
X-MailFrom: kondtir@gmail.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tls.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: "<tls@ietf.org>" <tls@ietf.org>
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [TLS] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-tls-reddy-composite-mldsa-00.txt
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/N9SHhPwqE_D7gdXufG8TyEWXhSw>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:tls-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:tls-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:tls-leave@ietf.org>

On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 at 14:12, Ilari Liusvaara <ilariliusvaara@welho.com>
wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 03, 2024 at 05:37:34AM +0530, tirumal reddy wrote:
> >
> > The draft
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tls-reddy-composite-mldsa/
> > specifies how ML-DSA in combination with traditional algorithms can be
> used
> > for authentication in TLS 1.3.
> >
>
> Important details, such as how signature are encoded seems to be
> missing.
>
>
> And I think this is very premature. As far as I can tell, there are
> major unaddressed issues with hybrid signatures. Those issues need to
> be settled first before adding any codepoints.
>
> Having multiple variants of the same hybrid signature is not acceptable
> due to severe security risks from overloading crypto library authors.
>
> Furthermore, the encodings used by draft-ietf-lamps-pq-composite-sigs
> add additional security risks. Modern crypto design uses byte string
> I/O for safety.
>

This issue is being discussed in the LAMPS WG; the composite signature API
should avoid using protocol-specific encoding.

-Tiru


>
> Currently, only bare ML-DSA and SLH-DSA are usable for post-quantum
> signature authentication. Seems that the only question that does not
> have an obvious answer is the context to use.
>
>
>
>
> -Ilari
>
> _______________________________________________
> TLS mailing list -- tls@ietf.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to tls-leave@ietf.org
>