Re: [TLS] Call for adoption of draft-vvv-tls-cross-sni-resumption

Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net> Tue, 10 November 2020 21:29 UTC

Return-Path: <mt@lowentropy.net>
X-Original-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA49A3A104A for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 13:29:45 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.098
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lowentropy.net header.b=gAnXN2OE; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=D70EfawI
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id up-BCQ9ucyjY for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 13:29:44 -0800 (PST)
Received: from wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A39C3A1047 for <tls@ietf.org>; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 13:29:44 -0800 (PST)
Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id D00B311EC for <tls@ietf.org>; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 16:29:43 -0500 (EST)
Received: from imap10 ([10.202.2.60]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 10 Nov 2020 16:29:43 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lowentropy.net; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :subject:content-type; s=fm3; bh=n6Myc67vHmw0VERcrMfyzRnwo/3EAX/ ytPL8zbT9vWc=; b=gAnXN2OEy22ayedy9Bk8wk9L7ir02HtsjujMJINOJt91SJm +lfkxM7qRiSydL13SRRYnUGH3/Lx0A483wyWAGdKquimCyCtoL2j5EvVVCB+9GZj d+9A+WC+LuLaemwPE9qMX25+V9EIawAieGDHe99p5K2ZFjvrTrxCIJNydoi8iS8d uE2HhhbBVvK44t4bNxkKspSnNGog0Gt3gdgm7/gp3QF+hvyFGl2vsq9C45si82js P6ve6+oLnS1VVQU407sdb9BZOaDcKltGhQeG4eXApxN+cVQKAk6E/VccAJqXQ7D7 jLsXhQywXSNnB8RPCtbmI20NHR4L/6UXu/JU/2w==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=n6Myc6 7vHmw0VERcrMfyzRnwo/3EAX/ytPL8zbT9vWc=; b=D70EfawIaYfUNKStVovZs5 1fNoFF3Ao2msXNh6xOYXJpEkoEJaIDOx3SnFV3n86YHY34ZDQFYLAY8CLlSXN7rY xLAp4yxJUHK//bhTcp+ccVsS92WVaHMdpQWUwepYq0zjEi9NCvlqMTQAk714j9eo +H9oJs88HfBHgmRL66f1i/UGAIblbSF5Xv/GPbuoBPmWx0tklAHBLYyj1ItyvW4u aKm8gyERwNXUx1zuRBmrL5x+T9N7V8pYDuzL192D9q1q0YaH04vbx8RKHKhuFry7 1d+I/yoOkVCe7b97HBOmxn/FYX+Q2/EQqDN93+ro/G8VjXmvClJ7NJBHSfgNxdlA ==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:RwarX-BYAw4GVNc_6ay3zoWPAGkIIsfui_wKxETzOUkTLw9j_kgNiQ> <xme:RwarX4gzvG-cw1XKE2Q2eYo3pxVYb3p6FBE1UftwOwQfim_6sUMHJS6YRQfEMKtrM tcGjsvjtyN1zkxoK08>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedujedruddujedgudehtdcutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgesth dtredtreertdenucfhrhhomhepfdforghrthhinhcuvfhhohhmshhonhdfuceomhhtsehl ohifvghnthhrohhphidrnhgvtheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepkeetueeikedtkeelfe ekvefhkeffvedvvefgkefgleeugfdvjeejgeffieegtdejnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihii vgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepmhhtsehlohifvghnthhrohhphidrnh gvth
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:RwarXxl5LhJm5v_KW_afZwY4cJmo77lvc4fRfTkE6sdDy5enuJLzOQ> <xmx:RwarX8xxhRSnHtfoijTK89HPlXx1n3HVUzuuNTTowhRcfYdi5ZQUyw> <xmx:RwarXzSAYq1lmagHMWO6-cQUqi9nuV-a8K0kPvXbQkM0hinVG1ygmQ> <xmx:RwarX6f_UWceWPSiIrkSpAUEhVQM8RcZBwYaDEZpjOdWAkYZK-vBdQ>
Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 16EC220093; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 16:29:43 -0500 (EST)
X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface
User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.3.0-570-gba0a262-fm-20201106.001-gba0a2623
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <935d9e52-935a-4b9f-a74f-cd434da7a45e@www.fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <48b1cfd3-1f3f-2478-1e36-12dd29aa1c6c@cs.tcd.ie>
References: <CAOgPGoATi+jFy53x5W4T6ai=xjH4VufhWaoABT5g_w=_72N8HA@mail.gmail.com> <48b1cfd3-1f3f-2478-1e36-12dd29aa1c6c@cs.tcd.ie>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 08:29:23 +1100
From: "Martin Thomson" <mt@lowentropy.net>
To: tls@ietf.org
Content-Type: text/plain
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/RJrvF5ohKxcqV2HlP01NyWcF_58>
Subject: Re: [TLS] Call for adoption of draft-vvv-tls-cross-sni-resumption
X-BeenThere: tls@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls/>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 21:29:46 -0000

On Tue, Nov 10, 2020, at 22:05, Stephen Farrell wrote:
> I'd be more in the "not yet" bracket for this. As Martin
> mentions this'd seem to create a possibly attractive way
> to do more tracking, so I think we ought try understand
> how that might fit into the wider set of new things (e.g.
> the HTTPS RRtype) before adopting.

I said something different.  A subtle distinction perhaps, but an important one.  I said that tracking protections could render this inoperative/ineffective.  You seem to be saying something else, which is that you don't trust people to deploy this responsibly.