IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [TLS] [Network-tokens] Network Tokens I-D and TLS / ESNI

Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> Sat, 01 August 2020 15:57 UTC

Return-Path: <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
X-Original-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F6DD3A0C75; Sat, 1 Aug 2020 08:57:35 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.898
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JCZNFFmZ0CUn; Sat, 1 Aug 2020 08:57:32 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 883EC3A0C71; Sat, 1 Aug 2020 08:57:32 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5814389B6; Sat, 1 Aug 2020 11:36:55 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id v40gZm5O_tLQ; Sat, 1 Aug 2020 11:36:45 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51B7A389B5; Sat, 1 Aug 2020 11:36:45 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8ACB9A; Sat, 1 Aug 2020 11:57:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To: Yiannis Yiakoumis <yiannis@selfienetworks.com>, network-tokens@ietf.org, "<tls@ietf.org>" <tls@ietf.org>
In-Reply-To: <kd7z5bh8.4b00046a-77e4-4d6d-b6e6-60fbbd78dfe7@we.are.superhuman.com>
References: <kbsy4785.3cb5b3af-12b1-4d09-9944-6e4e487b103d@we.are.superhuman.com> <CAKC-DJjRBZujxoLNtNCTe40Gwta9KbdCORVzJ1V54UTGpYP8xQ@mail.gmail.com> <87e6e635-d1ec-9f36-41c3-339774f510ca@nomountain.net> <38d4885d-71f0-e69c-e78c-608482036956@huitema.net> <kbwgjics.3e327ce5-1d5c-4ba4-9d8e-ae9cb79f3003@we.are.superhuman.com> <8a6e6520-9f7b-586b-42b4-3b1cab387ccb@huitema.net> <CAHbrMsDfS+oBcJjTQ77r9uAUDESFZ_QhQOz2f=GGsoJVdpcB9A@mail.gmail.com> <kd7z5bh8.4b00046a-77e4-4d6d-b6e6-60fbbd78dfe7@we.are.superhuman.com>
X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1
X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m<nPbLgmtKK-5dC@#:k
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2020 11:57:20 -0400
Message-ID: <4897.1596297440@localhost>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/WGsDuDF7Mb_3x8HEAe2xXEZithQ>
Subject: Re: [TLS] [Network-tokens] Network Tokens I-D and TLS / ESNI
X-BeenThere: tls@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls/>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2020 15:57:35 -0000

Yiannis Yiakoumis <yiannis@selfienetworks.com> wrote:
    > operators, ii) there are no good APIs to expose L3 socket APIs to the
    > app developers who would eventually acquire and insert tokens, and iii)
    > it doesn't work with IPv4.

(ii) is solvable: I don't want applications to bring along their own TLS
        libraries, i want them provided by OSes.  So there is no difference
        anymore between doing in "libssl" and in the kernel.

(iii) is a feature, frankly.  Please stop trying to patch 40yr old technology.

6man had a presentation yesterday about how far extensions headers get, and
the news is probably better than people feared, if I understood correctly.

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email