Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3
Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com> Mon, 24 November 2014 10:17 UTC
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Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 04:17:46 -0600
From: Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
To: Watson Ladd <watsonbladd@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3
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On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 02:15:30PM -0800, Watson Ladd wrote: > It's clear what the security claims of TLS are be: a TLS connection > between two parties ensures that data sent between them isn't > intercepted or manipulated, and that they are who they claim to be. > This is a fairly standard notion, clearly present in research by the > late 80's, and intuitively sensible. It's the standard Internet threat model. Aside from needing to be updated for massive adversay capabilities, the standard Internet threat model has held up well. What hasn't held up is TLS: > Of course, past versions of TLS haven't provided it. > > > In a sense, *every* protocol has the potential of becoming broken, > > unless it is unambiguously defined what is proper and improper usage > > of the protocol. We don't have a crystal ball. All we have is fairly decent (but almost certainly incomplete) public understanding of cryptography, and a fairly decent idea of today's applications' needs. We can imagine the near future and plan accordingly, but further out we run into trouble. I don't think we necessarily need, e.g., an explicit statement that resistance to BEAST/CRIME style attacks is required: the standard Internet threat model implies it. Though it doesn't hurt to list all of TLS's (and other protocols') vulnerabilities, of course... It also helps to design application protocols where BEAST/CRIME type attacks are of little use. I.e., we need better session continuation for HTTP than plain cookies. But we can't make that happen from the TLS layer, and we must act accordingly (besides, improving HTTP session continuation has proven to be a very difficult task). Nico --
- [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Henrick Hellström
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Henrick Hellström
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Hanno Böck
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Henrick Hellström
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Ralph Holz
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Jeffrey Walton
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Henrick Hellström
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Henrick Hellström
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Florian Weimer
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Brian Smith
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Bodo Moeller
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Joseph Salowey
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Ryan Sleevi
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Rethink TLS 1.3 Peter Gutmann