Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback
Ilari Liusvaara <ilariliusvaara@welho.com> Wed, 23 October 2019 17:38 UTC
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 20:37:24 +0300
From: Ilari Liusvaara <ilariliusvaara@welho.com>
To: Watson Ladd <watsonbladd@gmail.com>
Cc: Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>, "TLS@ietf.org" <tls@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback
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On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 10:39:24PM -0700, Watson Ladd wrote: > > At the same time Client Hello sizes aren't constrained to be tiny, but > the next problem of 1280 bytes is not that far off either. So we > should be judicious in spending those bytes. I do not think 1280 bytes is a big issue. - If using QUIC, one expects fragmentation above 1200 bytes. I am not sure if fragmentation is presently allowed, but I am sure it is not pleasant to implement in robust way. - For classical TLS over TCP, in practice one can push something like 1400 octets or so in a single packet over virtually all paths. - Present handshake sizes are AFAIK bit north of 256 bytes (still mostly padded to 512 to avoid old TLS server bugs). So sticking even 350 bytes (256 for name plus 80 bytes crypto overhead plus few odd other bytes) extra would not blow any soft limits. - With post-quantum, you are going to bust single packet limits no matter what, since: - SIKE is slow, so server operators probably prefer lattices as those are like two orders of magnitude faster than SIKE (or SIDH). - Lattices are roughly 800 bytes at minimum at reasonable security levels. - You are going to need two keys, because all the post-quantum ways of sharing one key are both even slower and more exciting (not in a good way) than anything in NISTPQC. -Ilari
- [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Christian Huitema
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Patrick McManus
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Ben Schwartz
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Ben Schwartz
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Ben Schwartz
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Christian Huitema
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] ESNI padding Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Bill Frantz
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Ben Schwartz
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Ben Schwartz
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Rob Sayre
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Christopher Wood
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback Ilari Liusvaara