Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay
Watson Ladd <watsonbladd@gmail.com> Tue, 07 April 2015 05:38 UTC
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Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 22:38:18 -0700
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From: Watson Ladd <watsonbladd@gmail.com>
To: Ilari Liusvaara <ilari.liusvaara@elisanet.fi>
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Subject: Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay
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On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 5:05 AM, Ilari Liusvaara <ilari.liusvaara@elisanet.fi> wrote: > On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 02:49:28PM -0700, Eric Rescorla wrote: >> In the interim in Seattle, we had an extensive discussion of 0-RTT >> anti-replay in which DKG observed that all the proposed anti-replay >> mechanisms provide limited protection. The underlying problem is the >> desire to present a uniform interface in which the calling application >> can count on reliable delivery of the data it provides in the first >> flight, thus requiring the TLS stack to retransmit it automatically. > > [...] > >> The other two options clearly require a separate API to handle this >> special first-flight data and would require applications to handle it >> separately. So, for instance, in option 2, you would have something >> like: >> >> c = new TLSConnection(...) >> c.setReplayable0RTTData("GET /....") >> c.connect(); > > This is on client side, but how about server side? > > 1) > > - Server app indicates to TLS stack if it supports 0RTT. > - If no support or 0RTT fails, 0RTT is refused and retransmitted > data is prefixed into connection data. > - If supported and 0RTT transmission succeeds, app can read 0RTT > data using separate call. > > Problem: 0RTT supported but failing (e.g. wrong keys) is a special > case for serverside. > > > 2) > > - Server app indicates to TLS stack if it supports 0RTT. > - If no support, this is signaled to client. > - If supported but fails, this is signaled to client. > - 0RTT data (original or retransmit) is read using separate > interface. > > Problems: 0RTT supported/not supported is two different cases > for the client. Retransmit would need to be flagged specially. > > > 3) > > - If 0RTT fails or not supported, it is refused. > - Just prefix 0RTT data into connection data. > > Prolem: Server can't tell apart 0RTT data from normal data. > > > > Also, regarding security considerations due to replayability, would > "MUST NOT authenticate in 0RTT data" (which e.g. means cookies that are > possibly authenticating can't be sent) be useful consideration? Only if we don't guarantee that the person who sent the 0-RTT data is the same person who carries out the rest of the connection. This seems possible, but I don't know what the right definition is. > > > > -Ilari > > _______________________________________________ > TLS mailing list > TLS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls -- "Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains". --Rousseau.
- [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Mohamad Badra
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Stephen Checkoway
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Andrey Jivsov
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Andrey Jivsov
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Colm MacCárthaigh
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Colm MacCárthaigh
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Roland Zink
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Colm MacCárthaigh
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Brian Sniffen
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Roland Zink
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Roland Zink
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Roland Zink
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Colm MacCárthaigh
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Patrick McManus
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT and Anti-Replay Ilari Liusvaara
- [TLS] 0-RTT (Was: Re: 0-RTT and Anti-Replay) Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT (Was: Re: 0-RTT and Anti-Replay) Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT (Was: Re: 0-RTT and Anti-Replay) Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT (Was: Re: 0-RTT and Anti-Replay) Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT (Was: Re: 0-RTT and Anti-Replay) Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT (Was: Re: 0-RTT and Anti-Replay) Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT (Was: Re: 0-RTT and Anti-Replay) Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT (Was: Re: 0-RTT and Anti-Replay) Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT (Was: Re: 0-RTT and Anti-Replay) Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT (Was: Re: 0-RTT and Anti-Replay) Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT (Was: Re: 0-RTT and Anti-Replay) Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT (Was: Re: 0-RTT and Anti-Replay) Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT (Was: Re: 0-RTT and Anti-Replay) Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT (Was: Re: 0-RTT and Anti-Replay) Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] 0-RTT (Was: Re: 0-RTT and Anti-Replay) Ilari Liusvaara