Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to send alerts?
Dave Garrett <davemgarrett@gmail.com> Wed, 16 September 2015 19:29 UTC
Return-Path: <davemgarrett@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C29F71A015F for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 16 Sep 2015 12:29:44 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mqmVsYfqdnsD for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 16 Sep 2015 12:29:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qk0-x233.google.com (mail-qk0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 793591A0155 for <tls@ietf.org>; Wed, 16 Sep 2015 12:29:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by qkcf65 with SMTP id f65so91173825qkc.3 for <tls@ietf.org>; Wed, 16 Sep 2015 12:29:42 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:date:user-agent:cc:references:in-reply-to :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:message-id; bh=WSfM2rPwwzeUG3KHKVmS4oWDxY8FtcWSXrXkmvv1+EE=; b=ct5mK0uxgoOC+t1Ame0jmqlAEfbOp4QEkecGb+xm1CAGuXhEZgW07T+xNgZHmq57uA QwCMuARWdbVjKTY+S2vodV5i019eSNjYbJ/MNW+0jtuMVZTVOiGDNRrFGoOhO2YvlkwA qMhoD7z8GruX3MpOs8wn9doHyaoUplMhG3PnywzugFBRw88DnVioL3x8w6VIF51dfeE6 U424x36/W3JBWpjW1tAtXAcgv5OLGhBnhXHExs3djRn6IRbHUL9FxjOfpeB2Md9Tyy7+ 83w/Bpwbqrh6hZApRcdUsqAmoX75Hctv/G6Z2zrScjt3exqzXsCD+eLv4rA8IQOznqIa Onuw==
X-Received: by 10.55.17.212 with SMTP id 81mr21153812qkr.15.1442431782699; Wed, 16 Sep 2015 12:29:42 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from dave-laptop.localnet (pool-72-94-152-197.phlapa.fios.verizon.net. [72.94.152.197]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r16sm10634298qkl.3.2015.09.16.12.29.42 (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 16 Sep 2015 12:29:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dave Garrett <davemgarrett@gmail.com>
To: tls@ietf.org
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 15:29:40 -0400
User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (Linux/2.6.32-74-generic-pae; KDE/4.4.5; i686; ; )
References: <CABcZeBPnO4zn_HkvwLpLC+EVYN8EKOBEsR80oRt3HZgsiNGDoQ@mail.gmail.com> <55F93E51.50001@redhat.com> <20150916192338.GK13294@localhost>
In-Reply-To: <20150916192338.GK13294@localhost>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-Id: <201509161529.40872.davemgarrett@gmail.com>
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/_fDAtEwd-5PTu0Go_BpY61ZFQ1E>
Cc: Florian Weimer <fweimer@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to send alerts?
X-BeenThere: tls@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls/>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 19:29:44 -0000
On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 03:23:40 pm Nico Williams wrote: > *Sending* the fatal alert is not hard at all. Giving the peer a fair > chance to get them is the difficult thing. Strictly speaking then, > requiring that fata alerts be sent is not difficult to implement. :^) > > Tongue-in-cheek aside, I think it's fair to say that fata alerts SHOULD > be sent rather than MUST be sent. And it's a good idea to explain that > sending a fatal alert, by itself, does not really mean that the peer is > even more likely than not to see it, that more effort is required by the > sender to give the peer a fair chance of seeing it. I'd be fine with phrasing it as: implementations MUST send all alerts when indicated, and SHOULD make a best-effort to ensure they get delivered to the peer. If we're hung up on how to define "send"; e.g. as implementation tried or as actually got on the wire and to the peer, then I would formally define it as the former. Dave
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Dave Garrett
- [TLS] Should we require implementations to send a… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Geoffrey Keating
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Andrei Popov
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Hanno Böck
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Florian Weimer
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Florian Weimer
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Henrik Grubbström
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Florian Weimer
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Jim Schaad
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Brian Smith
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Florian Weimer
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Brian Smith
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Brian Smith
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Brian Smith
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Brian Smith
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… David Benjamin
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Brian Smith
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Brian Smith
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Brian Smith
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Brian Smith
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… David Benjamin
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Brian Smith
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Tony Arcieri
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Bill Frantz
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Kurt Roeckx
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Kurt Roeckx
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] Should we require implementations to se… Hubert Kario