Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback

Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net> Mon, 21 October 2019 18:43 UTC

Return-Path: <huitema@huitema.net>
X-Original-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22344120025 for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 11:43:04 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BLOoCc3I8zuy for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 11:43:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx43-out1.antispamcloud.com (mx43-out1.antispamcloud.com [138.201.61.189]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 17768120105 for <tls@ietf.org>; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 11:43:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from xse313.mail2web.com ([66.113.197.59] helo=xse.mail2web.com) by mx37.antispamcloud.com with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from <huitema@huitema.net>) id 1iMcdu-0001Rm-DR for tls@ietf.org; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 20:42:59 +0200
Received: from xsmtp21.mail2web.com (unknown [10.100.68.60]) by xse.mail2web.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46xlrH3NWDz4N2K for <tls@ietf.org>; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 11:42:55 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [10.5.2.12] (helo=xmail02.myhosting.com) by xsmtp21.mail2web.com with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <huitema@huitema.net>) id 1iMcdr-0007qc-BL for tls@ietf.org; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 11:42:55 -0700
Received: (qmail 26652 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2019 18:42:55 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.101]) (Authenticated-user:_huitema@huitema.net@[172.58.43.199]) (envelope-sender <huitema@huitema.net>) by xmail02.myhosting.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with ESMTPA for <tls@ietf.org>; 21 Oct 2019 18:42:54 -0000
To: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>, Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
Cc: "TLS@ietf.org" <tls@ietf.org>
References: <CAChr6Sw3f7du3JYxfcWSZje1zjDzsRBQyDjob-AvzjWeZzKW7g@mail.gmail.com> <CABcZeBPbw_KOo_ieSqkksYPeLtb9DufBz628oFPYc_Ue4S9iww@mail.gmail.com> <CAChr6SwB+7Jt2TLJSQh3q=Roizdt2=9jCBa9nq8KRxRo=86uZQ@mail.gmail.com> <CABcZeBNBtDK7q175tseEUiCVds=khj4xXYJZRf7GU9VGNDJ_Tg@mail.gmail.com> <CAChr6Sz6xHtFWjOKrLp3sp9MpC-SoU9Sx=vk22ditjShA7B=Kg@mail.gmail.com> <CABcZeBOnE+gyNu7GarAfO0bptoPfzQQ=VKeWLdpJBDM=E4yhzg@mail.gmail.com> <CAChr6SxWE66jPRbnBRtwNSn3L+uNFkoFBbYNOBAkKDN05qotoA@mail.gmail.com> <CABcZeBOy8ogJrmFajxX1pqjqgnE61gE=c3CWz+pp34NWHmGKbw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>
Autocrypt: addr=huitema@huitema.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFIRX8gBCAC26usy/Ya38IqaLBSu33vKD6hP5Yw390XsWLaAZTeQR64OJEkoOdXpvcOS HWfMIlD5s5+oHfLe8jjmErFAXYJ8yytPj1fD2OdSKAe1TccUBiOXT8wdVxSr5d0alExVv/LO I/vA2aU1TwOkVHKSapD7j8/HZBrqIWRrXUSj2f5n9tY2nJzG9KRzSG0giaJWBfUFiGb4lvsy IaCaIU0YpfkDDk6PtK5YYzuCeF0B+O7N9LhDu/foUUc4MNq4K3EKDPb2FL1Hrv0XHpkXeMRZ olpH8SUFUJbmi+zYRuUgcXgMZRmZFL1tu6z9h6gY4/KPyF9aYot6zG28Qk/BFQRtj7V1ABEB AAG0J0NocmlzdGlhbiBIdWl0ZW1hIDxodWl0ZW1hQGh1aXRlbWEubmV0PokBOQQTAQIAIwUC UhFfyAIbLwcLCQgHAwIBBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEJNDCbJVyA1yhbYH/1ud6x6m VqGIp0JcZUfSQO8w+TjugqxCyGNn+w/6Qb5O/xENxNQ4HaMQ5uSRK9n8WKKDDRSzwZ4syKKf wbkfj05vgFxrjCynVbm1zs2X2aGXh+PxPL/WHUaxzEP7KjYbLtCUZDRzOOrm+0LMktngT/k3 6+EZoLEM52hwwpIAzJoscyEz7QfqMOZtFm6xQnlvDQeIrHx0KUvwo/vgDLK3SuruG1CSHcR0 D24kEEUa044AIUKBS3b0b8AR7f6mP2NcnLpdsibtpabi9BzqAidcY/EjTaoea46HXALk/eJd 6OLkLE6UQe1PPzQC4jB7rErX2BxnSkHDw50xMgLRcl5/b1a5AQ0EUhFfyAEIAKp7Cp8lqKTV CC9QiAf6QTIjW+lie5J44Ad++0k8gRgANZVWubQuCQ71gxDWLtxYfFkEXjG4TXV/MUtnOliG 5rc2E+ih6Dg61Y5PQakm9OwPIsOx+2R+iSW325ngln2UQrVPgloO83QiUoi7mBJPbcHlxkhZ bd3+EjFxSLIQogt29sTcg2oSh4oljUpz5niTt69IOfZx21kf29NfDE+Iw56gfrxI2ywZbu5o G+d0ZSp0lsovygpk4jK04fDTq0vxjEU5HjPcsXC4CSZdq5E2DrF4nOh1UHkHzeaXdYR2Bn1Y wTePfaHBFlvQzI+Li/Q6AD/uxbTM0vIcsUxrv3MNHCUAEQEAAYkCPgQYAQIACQUCUhFfyAIb LgEpCRCTQwmyVcgNcsBdIAQZAQIABgUCUhFfyAAKCRC22tOSFDh1UOlBB/94RsCJepNvmi/c YiNmMnm0mKb6vjv43OsHkqrrCqJSfo95KHyl5Up4JEp8tiJMyYT2mp4IsirZHxz/5lqkw9Az tcGAF3GlFsj++xTyD07DXlNeddwTKlqPRi/b8sppjtWur6Pm+wnAHp0mQ7GidhxHccFCl65w uT7S/ocb1MjrTgnAMiz+x87d48n1UJ7yIdI41Wpg2XFZiA9xPBiDuuoPwFj14/nK0elV5Dvq 4/HVgfurb4+fd74PV/CC/dmd7hg0ZRlgnB5rFUcFO7ywb7/TvICIIaLWcI42OJDSZjZ/MAzz BeXm263lHh+kFxkh2LxEHnQGHCHGpTYyi4Z3dv03HtkH/1SI8joQMQq00Bv+RdEbJXfEExrT u4gtdZAihwvy97OPA2nCdTAHm/phkzryMeOaOztI4PS8u2Ce5lUB6P/HcGtK/038KdX5MYST Fn8KUDt4o29bkv0CUXwDzS3oTzPNtGdryBkRMc9b+yn9+AdwFEH4auhiTQXPMnl0+G3nhKr7 jvzVFJCRif3OAhEm4vmBNDE3uuaXFQnbK56GJrnqVN+KX5Z3M7X3fA8UcVCGOEHXRP/aubiw Ngawj0V9x+43kUapFp+nF69R53UI65YtJ95ec4PTO/Edvap8h1UbdEOc4+TiYwY1TBuIKltY 1cnrjgAWUh/Ucvr++/KbD9tD6C8=
Message-ID: <f8669a9f-c469-2c98-6e4b-4934343639ba@huitema.net>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2019 11:42:56 -0700
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.1.2
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CABcZeBOy8ogJrmFajxX1pqjqgnE61gE=c3CWz+pp34NWHmGKbw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------07DED3083F696AE4F0847AA5"
Content-Language: en-US
X-Originating-IP: 66.113.197.59
X-Spampanel-Domain: xsmtpout.mail2web.com
X-Spampanel-Username: 66.113.197.0/24
Authentication-Results: antispamcloud.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=66.113.197.0/24@xsmtpout.mail2web.com
X-Spampanel-Outgoing-Class: unsure
X-Spampanel-Outgoing-Evidence: Combined (0.15)
X-Recommended-Action: accept
X-Filter-ID: Mvzo4OR0dZXEDF/gcnlw0QRKNbAP+Q7R/EWH3Kru/cipSDasLI4SayDByyq9LIhVUZbR67CQ7/vm /hHDJU4RXkTNWdUk1Ol2OGx3IfrIJKywOmJyM1qr8uRnWBrbSAGDoOWO0i/H75teRGzF9TgV+efH zJ6mVE7ewsipSVIfs4aioNRigAEGGgKELfu9uCeXgyWFxOA5dILPypvKxNVhWQwOVcNrdpWfEYrY fLBY3+cBN5HyO9svXODFfKDo2spNmdySlZou9qHIGOZDEEo7O2nS6C1mWTD2n8BB0gTSSfDtw+Ut ziY+nbU7qa50sEXj8hEv6ylbrSataIASdByf+qyWDcKgIew/Pqmv8CiR0A+Ffy7fEg460Hn2xYnW avStyzAiWbbj13U46jbWFIz21cHX/YzWyFk7762whX3QQ+5uhkPm88V7ziklAaTl19sU919xeAvO xjeQEcL5lNmXdGd9U9Oojh2QY0MMPWjRsTVhMmX9VvKuj6psZloQqgYBwH0r+197ykuYmDR9wbL2 DBEuqNMl4E+tMKMsv/A3u4xFRxF9LSHNsZFl22lrRRn/H0knlMgOQTVp+x1fo2EPm2aZV8IQy+1t lZouzjYZdjp6t/bGQkUFXcjsI4cbvH6eNgufYE2F3hOb0LsrGGS6BBO8u0ag4+i9kLOW9cRnakdu 2lX9U0U/jnlrPw5p8im8gM5yDzctcfgaSyAJ9MhDntZcYflIMbaTJGx1xg/L1K1AUBBrtwxVM+r+ oqZYnUJBJwCelAgxI3HE4I5TUXrjZkhGpv3EPeYWzTNzqdCNxj0M4yXd56AXsGo1g3fUsu6jZuM7 jUXIESohoO51xWmU8ZNfCyuJJ0v8KnjP4iInSCUzn7yZwpmJB7GizNBQNhhk86LodOZj79xdSjzK bqR5XHk0qi1hkw/hDGKWkPVYlXF3BhZxGgZFOwvGprxNGaa6/2rAztFeklLxGNN3KHaPkMjB65Ki hPq1I9TXHnOlSkg/OIORZDl9o+TmclcfPTQwNGP0PwcsocAqk8Y/wQ+e4HndwcgUdq9CmjcVQOst ghA=
X-Report-Abuse-To: spam@quarantine9.antispamcloud.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/fWX_u6GgJ_xlqH8_IUL0fXxMaXQ>
Subject: Re: [TLS] draft-ietf-tls-esni feedback
X-BeenThere: tls@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls/>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2019 18:43:04 -0000

On 10/21/2019 11:08 AM, Eric Rescorla wrote:

>
>     3) Why is the length of "zeros" implicit rather than explicit? Is
>     it to save a few bytes, or is there a deeper reason?
>
>
> It saves bytes on the wire. It's also the way we've done other zero
> padding.

There also off-by-one or off-by-two issues that arise when the natural
length is equal to or very close to the padding target. Suppose that you
need zero padding to achieve the limit. Then if you have to stick in one
byte of length, you go over the limit. You might get around that by
making the padding field optional, but then the syntax would allow to
not have any padding and that opens a can of worms.. Or suppose that you
need exactly one byte of padding, but the length field is two bytes --
you can't just add one byte, you end up always off by one.

-- Christian Huitema