[TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS
Bas Westerbaan <bas@cloudflare.com> Mon, 18 November 2024 10:52 UTC
Return-Path: <bas@cloudflare.com>
X-Original-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C389BC1D4CC7 for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Nov 2024 02:52:52 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.093
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.093 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cloudflare.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EhVMNyzuGMFx for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Nov 2024 02:52:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-yb1-xb2f.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BEBF6C1D4A81 for <tls@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Nov 2024 02:52:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-yb1-xb2f.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e3839177651so2125831276.3 for <tls@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Nov 2024 02:52:48 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cloudflare.com; s=google09082023; t=1731927168; x=1732531968; darn=ietf.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=OEQDKz1FKwyItHcc7xDTLrPQ1ZwD7SpJoulLm8RgBfM=; b=aZTQ+PidowpjEQhC/CGTuUgrZPnIJj5yDOxVqkgmlkXNGjyKifsiK2VDNpjrqsuS+Q V44KoqOZZfToVwAPDfmowdIWQixrChORwkaFGDNqZdVFLIWYNw4eT5CMSCryD7ZT7zWV htcnh8xkUIUNs4SQwqpSz58iIvCGmvvDESd07ifM6ZkyW4gyMxF8cMg33MXAKNEvyKPR 8KmcgTv5UUSCv4bToHMg5CSI6jPwbcw1HISd9v0UPuQY68GRIvouPCWMZgHsz1qhNiL5 WipzGeidmMgqsf+5LR2PaapTdPX4FHkKSfFiFffphypN7a1RIb3odzuRc/nQ0gbONawP Qbuw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1731927168; x=1732531968; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=OEQDKz1FKwyItHcc7xDTLrPQ1ZwD7SpJoulLm8RgBfM=; b=jERsuNtU4P/pHfR29vGC83lLGyoSEhyBlWhRbAGDd1gegrkMQvyUsDIX2EkV/2J+e7 soFlCGxboHut7gMTIpYfUQXzjYcAEn5kKSw81goaWkSvoIe9IgwYFVTuLBboPzaahbQs 8Ah8oPuGanonUDfuJN/CsYVi3p8DUAn2Uri8jGNvwwQYnT/qEUYhYp5A5AOIC1nLSa1U CQxL+sGPr95KckCn63TZrkNjlQP3xXRjDyKz1eO0gina63Fu3eDEUw88z5/zqyFiFGxA liJfPsstK9gFkU6ykeWnj+3yvvEDrUOb7J5HYjTIje612Ayta1vA3FtFtqsYtfuThhjZ eLLQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyM2xdemKnDU6LUCQldFXVw3m0FHlXaSkxmynN+bO0wB2Bpo4G3 PIfjk4GYoJMPvTJi9hBBQd9OHZ0sltMJEP7F+bqxKfh2oFlEVPS7Rxn+STMWL2nseoUTkgQGGPp BxrZCx/LLJtfaQODW5z8Shhr1HPvnCWNmGxlW5g==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGwuU++E3NI/F3HrsVqWC7JEbmC03B+XluDn3rFshBBsgngjKdjYRwMDFS67IXl1eO/TfZGRPiHB4YqlfqF15g=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6902:27c7:b0:e38:a550:89e3 with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e38a5508c2dmr1566159276.28.1731927167760; Mon, 18 Nov 2024 02:52:47 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAMjbhoUFkL=UT0Pt2xjPLm998=j1ef+wdm0WO14_W7OJDJ-hOg@mail.gmail.com> <CAMjbhoWY+1Km_=+PbXfEjab02AfWpbd4WwKwuBN_5KZZpCkXZg@mail.gmail.com> <02360df0-cd49-473e-a076-bd68ae4f38f9@redhat.com> <GVXPR07MB9678F55D69E061CD9432F5BE89242@GVXPR07MB9678.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <PH8PR09MB92940D73F53A17CC0010B6F6FC242@PH8PR09MB9294.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
In-Reply-To: <PH8PR09MB92940D73F53A17CC0010B6F6FC242@PH8PR09MB9294.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
From: Bas Westerbaan <bas@cloudflare.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2024 11:52:36 +0100
Message-ID: <CAMjbhoUiAG-JQcasbaO6n10XybkLgL54QdxefihpWhS45xBveQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Rebecca Guthrie <rmguthr=40uwe.nsa.gov@dmarc.ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009ce9e306272db7f5"
Message-ID-Hash: 6GQ5JO3NNG2C4A2VCB25WGX4K7EW6CTQ
X-Message-ID-Hash: 6GQ5JO3NNG2C4A2VCB25WGX4K7EW6CTQ
X-MailFrom: bas@cloudflare.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tls.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: "<tls@ietf.org>" <tls@ietf.org>
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/gRFORGZOFh7i7nMi6ceFnxRqh6U>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:tls-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:tls-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:tls-leave@ietf.org>
On Fri, Nov 15, 2024 at 5:09 PM Rebecca Guthrie <rmguthr= 40uwe.nsa.gov@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > I also support WG adoption. > > > > One suggestion in the Introduction: > > > > "ML-DSA [FIPS204] is a post-quantum signature schemes standardised by > NIST. It is a module-lattice based scheme." -> "ML-DSA is a > module-lattice-based digital signature algorithm standardised by NIST in > [FIPS204]." > > > > And one suggestion in Section 3: > > > > "Note that these are the pure versions and should not be confused with > prehash variants such as HashML-DSA-44 also defined in [FIPS204]." -> "Note > that these values represent ML-DSA and not HashML-DSA [FIPS204, Section > 5.4]." > > > > Those who read this later who have not been following mailing list > discussions might not understand what is meant by "pure versions" since the > word "pure" is not used in FIPS 204- so it is probably best to just call > these ML-DSA and HashML-DSA. It may also be helpful to include a pointer to > the specific section in FIPS 204 where HashML-DSA is defined. > Thank you — made changes accordingly: https://github.com/bwesterb/tls-mldsa/commit/c38a19c996fe064d40fc8e0a802a0a4132aee9b8 > > > Rebecca Guthrie > > she/her > > Center for Cybersecurity Standards (CCSS) > > Cybersecurity Collaboration Center (CCC) > > National Security Agency (NSA) > > > > *From:* John Mattsson <john.mattsson=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org> > *Sent:* Friday, November 15, 2024 9:41 AM > *To:* Alicja Kario <hkario@redhat.com>; Bas Westerbaan <bas= > 40cloudflare.com@dmarc.ietf.org> > *Cc:* <tls@ietf.org> <tls@ietf.org> > *Subject:* [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS > > > > > Very happy to see it. > > > >I'm for workgroup adoption of it. > > > > +1 > > > > *From: *Alicja Kario <hkario@redhat.com> > *Date: *Friday, 15 November 2024 at 15:34 > *To: *Bas Westerbaan <bas=40cloudflare.com@dmarc.ietf.org> > *Cc: *<tls@ietf.org> > *Subject: *[TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS > > Very happy to see it. > > I'm for workgroup adoption of it. > > On Friday, 15 November 2024 11:51:31 CET, Bas Westerbaan wrote: > > We have posted a -00. > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-tls-westerbaan-mldsa-00 > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 23, 2024 at 7:29 PM Bas Westerbaan <bas@cloudflare.com> > wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > Unless I overlooked something, we don't have a draft out to > > assign a SignatureAlgorithm to ML-DSA for use in TLS. > > > > It's two days past the I-D submission deadline, but I wanted to > > point you to a short draft we put together to fill this gap. > > > > https://bwesterb.github.io/tls-mldsa/draft-tls-westerbaan-mldsa.html > > > > So far, I see only one open question: whether to set a non-zero > > context string. > > > > Best, > > > > Bas > > > > > > > > -- > Regards, > Alicja (nee Hubert) Kario > Principal Quality Engineer, RHEL Crypto team > Web: https://www.redhat.com/en/global/czech-republic?oh=www.cz.redhat.com > <http://www.cz.redhat.com/> > Red Hat Czech s.r.o., Purkyňova 115, 612 00, Brno, Czech Republic > > _______________________________________________ > TLS mailing list -- tls@ietf.org > To unsubscribe send an email to tls-leave@ietf.org >
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Kris Kwiatkowski
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Tim Hollebeek
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Ilari Liusvaara
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Ilari Liusvaara
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Tim Hollebeek
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Russ Housley
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Andrey Jivsov
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Andrey Jivsov
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Tim Hollebeek
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS tirumal reddy
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Santosh Chokhani
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Andrey Jivsov
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Andrey Jivsov
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS tirumal reddy
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Andrey Jivsov
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Andrey Jivsov
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Andrey Jivsov
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS aebecke@uwe.nsa.gov
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Andrey Jivsov
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS aebecke@uwe.nsa.gov
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Tim Hollebeek
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] ML-DSA in TLS Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS aebecke@uwe.nsa.gov
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Tim Hollebeek
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Ilari Liusvaara
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Rebecca Guthrie
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Andrey Jivsov
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS tirumal reddy
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Ilari Liusvaara
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Andrey Jivsov
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS tirumal reddy
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS tirumal reddy
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: ML-DSA in TLS D. J. Bernstein