[TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantum Key Agreement for TLS 1.3
Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com> Wed, 16 April 2025 04:12 UTC
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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2025 23:12:26 -0500
From: Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
To: "Salz, Rich" <rsalz=40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Subject: [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantum Key Agreement for TLS 1.3
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On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 02:15:03AM +0000, Salz, Rich wrote: > > If "move to PQ" meant no hybrid stuff for TLS, I'd really wonder why. > > That’s easy to answer: “many of our members have very > hardware-constrained PoS devices.” Is that okay? It might be possible to design the key exchange such that the hardware need not hold both PQ and ECC keys in memory at once, just one one set + one KDF output at most. That would not be unreasonable. For example, a current TPM might not have enough memory for PQ, but if it did then it would almost certainly have enough memory for holding a KDF output in addition. And if a current TPM did not have enough memory for PQ (and I assume current TPMs don't) then you'd need a new TPM and we could ensure that they do have enough memory for holding a KDF output. Nico --
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Thom Wiggers
- [TLS] WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantum Ke… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Russ Housley
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Rebecca Guthrie
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Yaroslav Rosomakho
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Sun Shuzhou
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Martin Thomson
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Yaakov Stein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… David Adrian
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Loganaden Velvindron
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Kris Kwiatkowski
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Filippo Valsorda
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Jan Schaumann
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Filippo Valsorda
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Loganaden Velvindron
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… tirumal reddy
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-… Yaakov Stein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Joseph Birr-Pixton
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Boring cryptography, and the opposite extre… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-… Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: Boring cryptography, and the opposite e… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: Boring cryptography, and the opposite e… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Loganaden Velvindron
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Flo D
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Quynh Dang
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Andrey Jivsov
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Benjamin Kaduk
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Nico Williams
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Nico Williams
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Flo D
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… David Adrian
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Flo D
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Paul Wouters
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Paul Wouters
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: Boring cryptography, and the … Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Nico Williams
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Paul Wouters
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Loganaden Velvindron
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Nico Williams
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Ca… Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Ca… Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Benjamin Kaduk
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Nico Williams
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Loganaden Velvindron
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Andrey Jivsov
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… S Moonesamy
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… S Moonesamy