Re: [TLS] (offline) Re: Draft for SM cipher suites used in TLS1.3

Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com> Sun, 18 August 2019 09:44 UTC

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To: Kepeng Li <kepeng.lkp@alibaba-inc.com>, "Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com>
Cc: "'tls@ietf.org'" <tls@ietf.org>
References: <3350587b-f768-425f-a759-3ed7ce2e6b27.kepeng.lkp@alibaba-inc.com> <1e07a7cc-b316-6a1d-6f59-b352ffbd74b8@gmail.com> <A644F3EC-B835-4D3C-A1FB-5D33547F1C84@akamai.com> <bf37b1f3-0fba-41a9-88a2-e5f50d95f56b.kepeng.lkp@alibaba-inc.com>
From: Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>
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Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2019 11:44:29 +0200
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Subject: Re: [TLS] (offline) Re: Draft for SM cipher suites used in TLS1.3
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Couldn't a group petition from the IETF request ISO and their member states to reconsider the use fee based standards?
This concept is incompatible with most current standards developments, be it in the IETF, W3C, or industry consortia as well a with Open Source.

Fee based standards represent an hurdle for innovation and adoption of new technology.

thanx,
Anders Rundgren

On 2019-08-18 10:09, Kepeng Li wrote:
>>Can you point to specific drafts where **normative** references are only available for paying a fee?  I guess that there are some, but I don’t know of any.
> 
> This is one example: https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8428.txt
> 
> [RNC]; ISO/IEC, "Information technology -- Document Schema Definition Language (DSDL) -- Part 2: Regular-grammar-based validation -- RELAX NG", ISO/IEC 19757-2, Annex C: RELAX NG Compact syntax, December 2008.
> 
> Kind Regards
> Kepeng
> 
> --------------------------
> 发件人:Salz, Rich<rsalz@akamai.com>;
> *日期:*8月16日 23:06
> *收件人:*Kepeng Li<kepeng.lkp@alibaba-inc.com>;
> *输入主题*Re: [TLS] (offline) Re: Draft for SM cipher suites used in TLS1.3
> 
> 
> *>*How does the other IETF drafts make the references to ISO documents? ISO documents are often referenced by IETF drafts.
> 
>   
> 
> Can you point to specific drafts where **normative** references are only available for paying a fee?  I guess that there are some, but I don’t know of any. Your claim implies definitive knowledge, however.
> 
> In general, the IETF tends to dislike using standards where the specification is not freely available in English. That last part, in English, is perhaps narrow-minded these days, but the IETF works in English.  Also, note that I said “tends to dislike” and didn’t claim a hard rule always enforced.  In the past, where there have been issues, it has been not uncommon to write internet-drafts and publish through CFRG; see https://datatracker.ietf.org/rg/cfrg/documents/ for many examples. Sometimes they are published as individual stream RFC’s; see https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7091 for a highly applicable example.
> 
> 
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