Re: [TLS] Industry Concerns about TLS 1.3

<> Fri, 23 September 2016 17:02 UTC

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Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2016 17:02:06 +0000
To: Watson Ladd <>, "Ackermann, Michael" <>
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Subject: Re: [TLS] Industry Concerns about TLS 1.3
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>> What I am saying,  in relation to your "Delivering a stable product"  comment is that over time various industries have learned what it takes to "Deliver a stable product".    We did not >>want to invest millions in these debugging networks.  But  we learned the hard way,  that it was necessary.
>> I am not a member of the banking coalition that started this subject,  nor of the banking industry at all,  but I certainly understand their perspective and am concerned about  the same >>unmanageable future they described.

>Do  Akami, Cloudlflare and Google magically not have these problems?
It would be very interesting to get the network diagnostic and operations people (rather than the architects) of the above companies involved in this conversation.
Also, you know, companies don't really enjoy spending money on network diagnostic products which might be considered overhead.   So, if they are, we might do them the courtesy of not thinking that they are foolish to do so.   
Why don't we listen to each other?   I know at IETF, I often hear that we don't get enough operators to comment and give feedback.  Well, here you have some.  It may be that these companies have problems that are different from Google's (just as an example).
Isn't our goal to have the best standards possible?   Any organism (including the IETF), needs feedback to thrive.
> Thanks
> Mike
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeffrey Walton []
> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2016 10:55 AM
> To: Ackermann, Michael <>
> Cc: BITS Security <>;
> Subject: Re: [TLS] Industry Concerns about TLS 1.3
> On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 10:46 AM, Ackermann, Michael <> wrote:
>> From the perspective an Enterprise that runs these applications and has invested HEAVILY in the debugging networks.........
>> The reason we are debugging these networks is so that "The 5-6 order of magnitude of folks using them"  will have good service.  If they do not,  they will consider competitors and/or generate a litany service calls or complaints.        I.E.    When these "Folks"  are slow or not working they are just as unhappy as we are.
> Isn't that the market operating as expected? Those who deliver a stable product at a competitive price are rewarded, while those who fail to deliver or deliver at an unreasonable cost are not? (Some hand waiving).
> If all providers failed to deliver or delivered an inferior product, then it might indicate a major course correction is needed. But I don't think that's the case here.
> Jeff
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