Re: [TLS] Application layer interactions and API guidance
Ilari Liusvaara <ilariliusvaara@welho.com> Sat, 08 October 2016 14:22 UTC
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Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2016 17:22:47 +0300
From: Ilari Liusvaara <ilariliusvaara@welho.com>
To: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
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Subject: Re: [TLS] Application layer interactions and API guidance
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On Fri, Oct 07, 2016 at 03:04:14PM -0700, Eric Rescorla wrote: > On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 3:00 PM, Ilari Liusvaara <ilariliusvaara@welho.com> > wrote: > > > On Fri, Oct 07, 2016 at 01:41:14PM -0700, Watson Ladd wrote: > > > On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 10:47 PM, Ilari Liusvaara > > > <ilariliusvaara@welho.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > Also, it is very likely that 0-RTT would need its own read API, because > > > > it is pretty unlikely that existing API could be safely retrofitted > > > > or even purpose-built unified API be designed that isn't just asking > > > > for security problems via mixing 0-RTT and 1-RTT data. > > > > > > Yes. In particular I think the TLS state machine transitions need to > > > be ordered with respect to the arrival and sending of data. The > > > challenge for a multithreaded program (yes, some programs have > > > multiple threads sending and receiving at once) is making this make > > > sense, or even a single-threaded program where the TLS stack can > > > change state at times not visible to the sending thread. Maybe there > > > is some slop here, like 0-RTT can become 1-RTT on send, but this > > > raises all sorts of problems for receiving. I think we need to require > > > separation in the API. > > > > 0-RTT can't be allowed to become 1-RTT on send (unless it is auto- > > retransmit, which needs to be disableable, as sometimes that just plain > > won't work). > > Can you explain why that is? E.g. what they are planning to do with 0-RTT Token Binding in HTTP. The client puts in a signature into 0-RTT data. If the server rejects the 0-RTT and the client retransmits, the signature will still be there but is different. Also, if 0-RTT data can silently shift to 1-RTT, it would mean the server-side model would be to concatenate 0-RTT and 1-RTT data, which I thought we already established is quite dangerous. -Ilari
- [TLS] Application layer interactions and API guid… Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Application layer interactions and API … Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] Application layer interactions and API … Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Application layer interactions and API … Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] Application layer interactions and API … Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Application layer interactions and API … Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] Application layer interactions and API … Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Application layer interactions and API … Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Application layer interactions and API … Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] Application layer interactions and API … Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Application layer interactions and API … Nick Harper
- Re: [TLS] Application layer interactions and API … David Benjamin
- Re: [TLS] Application layer interactions and API … Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Application layer interactions and API … Kyle Rose
- Re: [TLS] Application layer interactions and API … Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] Application layer interactions and API … Kyle Rose
- Re: [TLS] Application layer interactions and API … Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] Application layer interactions and API … Kyle Rose
- Re: [TLS] Application layer interactions and API … Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] Application layer interactions and API … Kyle Rose
- Re: [TLS] Application layer interactions and API … Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] Application layer interactions and API … Kyle Rose
- Re: [TLS] Application layer interactions and API … Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Application layer interactions and API … Kyle Rose
- Re: [TLS] Application layer interactions and API … Watson Ladd