[TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantum Key Agreement for TLS 1.3
Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com> Thu, 17 April 2025 18:30 UTC
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Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 13:30:53 -0500
From: Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
To: "Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL" <uri@ll.mit.edu>
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CC: Thomas Bellebaum <thomas.bellebaum@aisec.fraunhofer.de>, "paul.wouters@aiven.io" <paul.wouters@aiven.io>, "tls@ietf.org" <tls@ietf.org>
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Subject: [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantum Key Agreement for TLS 1.3
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On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 05:56:56PM +0000, Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL wrote: > Since It looks like 3/4 of the audience holds position similar to mine > - frankly, I don’t see why 3/4 must convince 1/4 that their position > is valid (usually, it’s the other way around). We don't "vote" because majorities _can be wrong_. At any rate it's hard to quantify the risks of pure PQ, and since there will be entities that insist on it for their own internal uses, and since the codepoint assignments exist, it's a bit over the top to say no when we can just insist that these not be MTI and hope that [unlike Dual_EC] pure PQ gets no usage outside of the orgs that require it. Though I'm not keen on pure PQ yet, I do believe that the WG Chair's call was correct, but not just because 3/4s support adoption, and I appreciate that the consensus is strongly that pure PQ not be MTI. Nico --
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Thom Wiggers
- [TLS] WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantum Ke… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Russ Housley
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Rebecca Guthrie
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Yaroslav Rosomakho
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Sun Shuzhou
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Martin Thomson
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Yaakov Stein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… David Adrian
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Loganaden Velvindron
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Kris Kwiatkowski
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Filippo Valsorda
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Jan Schaumann
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Filippo Valsorda
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Loganaden Velvindron
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… tirumal reddy
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-… Yaakov Stein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Joseph Birr-Pixton
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Boring cryptography, and the opposite extre… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-… Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: Boring cryptography, and the opposite e… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: Boring cryptography, and the opposite e… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Loganaden Velvindron
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Flo D
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Quynh Dang
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Andrey Jivsov
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Benjamin Kaduk
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Nico Williams
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Nico Williams
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Flo D
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… David Adrian
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Flo D
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Paul Wouters
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Paul Wouters
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: Boring cryptography, and the … Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Nico Williams
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Paul Wouters
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Loganaden Velvindron
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Nico Williams
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Ca… Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Ca… Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Benjamin Kaduk
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Nico Williams
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Loganaden Velvindron
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Andrey Jivsov
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… S Moonesamy
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… S Moonesamy
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Sean Turner