Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-tls-pwd

SeongHan Shin <seonghan.shin@aist.go.jp> Fri, 06 December 2013 02:33 UTC

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References: <3065D910-832C-47B6-9E0B-2F8DCD2657D2@cisco.com> <529C990D.3020608@gmail.com> <CACsn0cmtP_dF7N2op4DZUwR8t-fW30GmtdqQoteZ+9Y0oH3dUg@mail.gmail.com> <a4b1729af4966e99df1582943f02a0a8.squirrel@www.trepanning.net> <CACsn0cksrU2GErd6FkZPkXKXK4pSJhTbBoJ-0C-14jsM=UY2iQ@mail.gmail.com> <14e67efee74d2ec6d535f6750ed829db.squirrel@www.trepanning.net> <CACsn0c=PnB2CA8rpNtcOp6RRLNWHEPN-aN+AdWSF7FJM2wZOog@mail.gmail.com> <6d86c3be1741ed14992ec8662e0d32c7.squirrel@www.trepanning.net> <CADMpkcKTAARYK2id27T44eVyx6gF24mkt9nAkUZbSmwtEtd2gg@mail.gmail.com> <6c129fd89a9e5953ba844e4e1d1e6e98.squirrel@www.trepanning.net> <CAGZ8ZG0n7AFWc_WpxLzKbhnRxz8hkQAD-j8VDtX_GOHD5Nc6nw@mail.gmail.com> <7c8448fa356f5d764186ca62552efb1d.squirrel@www.trepanning.net> <CAEKgtqkxdYMXDNEMWGO=S1ayYuFQV3REkUJXy9vjBE4bCW_5bg@mail.gmail.com> <3895ae1cde1a695cf86767e4977c2218.squirrel@www.trepanning.net> <CAEKgtqm10t4F6gWRCCQDKPQ2b6x-QrnuXknD_RrS0v76_jLw_Q@mail.gmail.com> <de6a4128e0b3ccbab23f1970723906dc.squirrel@www.trepanning.net>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 11:33:36 +0900
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From: SeongHan Shin <seonghan.shin@aist.go.jp>
To: Dan Harkins <dharkins@lounge.org>
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Subject: Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-tls-pwd
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Dear Dan,

> It is clear from this IPR Disclosures:
>
>          "[I]f this document...is adopted as an IETF standards
>           track RFC, AIST is prepared to grant a non-exclusive
>           royalty-free license for any conforming implementations
>           of the adopted version (as an IETF standards track RFC)
>           of this document."

The statements in the IPR Disclosure was made by an attorney of AIST.
If you think differently, it is better to consult your attorney for its
clarity.

Best regards,
Shin


On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 11:24 AM, Dan Harkins <dharkins@lounge.org> wrote:

>
> On Thu, December 5, 2013 6:03 pm, SeongHan Shin wrote:
> > Dear all,
> >
> > It is clear from this IPR Disclosures:
> >
> >          "[I]f this document...is adopted as an IETF standards
> >           track RFC, AIST is prepared to grant a non-exclusive
> >           royalty-free license for any conforming implementations
> >           of the adopted version (as an IETF standards track RFC)
> >           of this document."
> >
> > The below means that AugPAKE can be used royalty-free, but other schemes
> > in the patent can not.
> >
> >          "Needless to say, this does not mean that all the claims
> >           and the contents in the patent application
> >           PCT/JP2009/062578 are covered with the non-exclusive
> >           royalty-free license."
>
>   No, what is says is that the "royalty-free" license does not necessarily
> cover all the claims in the patent and anyone who implements it under
> such a "royalty-free" license is still open to being sued by AIST.
>
>   Maybe you should put a "Patent Infringement Considerations" section
> in your draft to spell out exactly which claims are not covered by your
> "royalty-free" license.
>
>   Dan.
>
> > Best regards,
> > Shin
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Dan Harkins <dharkins@lounge.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, December 5, 2013 5:22 pm, SeongHan Shin wrote:
> >> > Dear all,
> >> >
> >> >>> Additionally, developments such as Elligator and AugPAKE hold
> >> promise
> >> >>> for protocols that have both security proofs *and* no IPR
> >> encumbrance.
> >> >>
> >> >>https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2037/<
> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2037/>
> >> >
> >> > As in the above IPR Disclosures, AugPAKE can be used royal-free for
> >> any
> >> > conforming implementations.
> >> > The patent of AugPAKE was granted in Feb. and April of 2013 from Japan
> >> and
> >> > U.S. respectively.
> >>
> >>   No, it doesn't say "any conforming implementation" period. It says:
> >>
> >>          "[I]f this document...is adopted as an IETF standards
> >>           track RFC, AIST is prepared to grant a non-exclusive
> >>           royalty-free license for any conforming implementations
> >>           of the adopted version (as an IETF standards track RFC)
> >>           of this document."
> >>
> >> So it has to be a standards track RFC. But even that's not really
> >> true because it goes on to say:
> >>
> >>          "Needless to say, this does not mean that all the claims
> >>           and the contents in the patent application
> >>           PCT/JP2009/062578 are covered with the non-exclusive
> >>           royalty-free license."
> >>
> >> So even if it was a standards track document, AIST reserves
> >> the right to still go after people to whom it granted this
> >> "royalty-free" license. Anyone who took such a license should
> >> get, or get better, legal counsel.
> >>
> >>   Dan.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > SeongHan Shin
> > Research Institute for Secure Systems (RISEC),
> > National Institute of Advanced Industrial Science and Technology (AIST),
> > Central 2, 1-1-1, Umezono, Tsukuba City, Ibaraki 305-8568 Japan
> > Tel : +81-29-861-2670/5284
> > Fax : +81-29-861-5285
> > E-mail : seonghan.shin@aist.go.jp
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
SeongHan Shin
Research Institute for Secure Systems (RISEC),
National Institute of Advanced Industrial Science and Technology (AIST),
Central 2, 1-1-1, Umezono, Tsukuba City, Ibaraki 305-8568 Japan
Tel : +81-29-861-2670/5284
Fax : +81-29-861-5285
E-mail : seonghan.shin@aist.go.jp
------------------------------------------------------------------