[TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Q uantum Key Agreement for TLS 1.3
S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com> Sat, 19 April 2025 05:49 UTC
Return-Path: <sm@elandsys.com>
X-Original-To: tls@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: tls@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2372C1E61AA3 for <tls@mail2.ietf.org>; Fri, 18 Apr 2025 22:49:17 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.7
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=elandsys.com
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MKPzYKKbyhlL for <tls@mail2.ietf.org>; Fri, 18 Apr 2025 22:49:16 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34A721E61AA0 for <tls@ietf.org>; Fri, 18 Apr 2025 22:49:16 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from DESKTOP-K6V9C2L.elandsys.com ([197.225.105.252]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPSA id 53J5mghC025285 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 18 Apr 2025 22:49:11 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1745041753; x=1745128153; i=@elandsys.com; bh=cp5b/jN92UEM/quUPtX7XdOIB75IAn2/HsBF/dMXpi8=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=u0U0wBfeeGeGdXXkV2totlmH68RNYax/8aaKrgzr6E2aLchM3YdTzXNw73AN8iYdF x1xNP+3ox8v8ibFB5tikmD7n5Wh3jJNI71XMgq0bSiAXQA9g0KYCS70MCVL+e8ZuQu pw8aMn7a+EWriZsx77CiOsk70N4bwowVQ/r2Ya9E=
Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20250418211210.0c152140@elandnews.com>
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 22:45:31 -0700
To: "Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL" <uri@ll.mit.edu>, tls@ietf.org
From: S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com>
In-Reply-To: <BN0P110MB1419E8DB9B38B33F41A6234590BCA@BN0P110MB1419.NAMP1 10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <5dd1e81a-c37a-ceff-b89e-b4335fca07b6@nohats.ca> <56e646395f67e27ff11a092d5989c1c85eba2563.camel@aisec.fraunhofer.de> <CAOp4FwSJpvn6f=3utd4yBE=ftkXQ4h38FT3VQ1XOhrubqgu0ng@mail.gmail.com> <BN0P110MB1419E8DB9B38B33F41A6234590BCA@BN0P110MB1419.NAMP110.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-ID-Hash: D4IQGULPXAOSRXD5XB5YXL5QHO2H2VN4
X-Message-ID-Hash: D4IQGULPXAOSRXD5XB5YXL5QHO2H2VN4
X-MailFrom: sm@elandsys.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tls.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Q uantum Key Agreement for TLS 1.3
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/mfSHT90jg-8cvVPUoZnJQt6Pui4>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:tls-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:tls-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:tls-leave@ietf.org>
Hi Uri, At 10:23 AM 17-04-2025, Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL wrote: >You consider pure-PQ risks then don't usee it. >I consider risks associated with hybrids, so my >deployment will not use them. To each his own. According to a draft authored by Reddy and Tschofenig, "Pure PQC Key Exchange may be required for specific deployments with regulatory or compliance mandates". The authors then go on to list "high-security environments" as an example of where Pure PQC Key Exchange is required. An assessment of risks would be different in such environments. The web browser vendors decide which algorithm(s) to deploy at my location. That's usually how it works for everyday use. I doubt that the everyday user would be asking for compliance with the (U.S.) FIPS 203 standard (please see Section 1.1 of draft-connolly-tls-mlkem-key-agreement-05); It's unlikely that the user would have heard of "FIPS". It could be different in other parts of the world. >Don't try to stuff your perception of risks and >correctness into everybody else's throat. The above sentence seems a bit strong. Regards, S. Moonesamy
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Thom Wiggers
- [TLS] WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantum Ke… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Russ Housley
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Rebecca Guthrie
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Yaroslav Rosomakho
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Sun Shuzhou
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Martin Thomson
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Yaakov Stein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… David Adrian
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Loganaden Velvindron
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Kris Kwiatkowski
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Filippo Valsorda
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Jan Schaumann
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Filippo Valsorda
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Loganaden Velvindron
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… tirumal reddy
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-… Yaakov Stein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Joseph Birr-Pixton
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Boring cryptography, and the opposite extre… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-… Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: Boring cryptography, and the opposite e… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: Boring cryptography, and the opposite e… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Loganaden Velvindron
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Flo D
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Quynh Dang
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Andrey Jivsov
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Benjamin Kaduk
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Nico Williams
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Nico Williams
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Flo D
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… David Adrian
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Flo D
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Paul Wouters
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Paul Wouters
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: Boring cryptography, and the … Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Nico Williams
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Paul Wouters
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Loganaden Velvindron
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Nico Williams
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Ca… Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Ca… Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Benjamin Kaduk
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Nico Williams
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Loganaden Velvindron
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… Andrey Jivsov
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM P… S Moonesamy
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… S Moonesamy
- [TLS] Re: WG Adoption Call for ML-KEM Post-Quantu… Sean Turner