Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion so far
<Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com> Wed, 09 December 2009 13:36 UTC
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From: Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com
To: mrex@sap.com
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:35:31 +0100
Thread-Topic: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion so far
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Cc: tls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion so far
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Martin Rex wrote: > When there is some signaling between TLS implementation and application > (like a callback), and application data that arrives during the > renegotiation handshake is either dropped or leads to failed hanshake, > then a change of identity--even for something as "insignificant" as > a certificate renewal is manageable for the application. > > There are issues in the existing SSL & TLS protocol specs that > cause a problem for such semantics: (a) the TLS spec explicitly allows > transfer of application messages interleaved with renegotiation > handshake messages, and (b) the TLS spec indicates that handshake > messages have precedence over application data, without saying > what this means. Since this precedence is _not_ about processing > at the record layer (in TLS, all messages must be processed in order), > so it can only be about delivery to application. But here, it > creates a confusion in the wrong direction. Application data delivered > interleaved with the renegotiation handshake is protected under the > original cipher suite and under the original authentication. > Delaying that data until after authentication seems unreasonable, > because it would require an additional facility to tell the application > at what point in the application data stream the identity change > happened, long after the signaling of the new identity. Even if application data and handshake messages were not interleaved over-the-wire, the application could still be confused. Let's assume some application data arrives just before the handshake (no interleaving over-the-wire); the TLS library reads it, decrypts it, and stores it in a buffer. But then the handshake starts before the application had a chance to read the data from the buffer (perhaps it's busy doing some else). After the handshake is done, the APIs may not really tell the application when exactly the data arrived... (This situation doesn't necessarily occur in all TLS libraries, and may depend on what the APIs look like, how threads are used, etc...) Best regards, Pasi (not wearing any hats)
- [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion so f… Pasi.Eronen
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Blumenthal, Uri - 0662 - MITLL
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Pasi.Eronen
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Stefan Santesson
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Pasi.Eronen
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Pasi.Eronen
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Michael Gray
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Pasi.Eronen
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Pasi.Eronen
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Pasi.Eronen
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Pasi.Eronen
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Pasi.Eronen
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Kyle Hamilton
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Pasi.Eronen
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Michael Gray
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Michael Gray
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Michael Gray
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Kyle Hamilton
- [TLS] OpenPGP Certs for TLS [was: Re: Summarizing… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Blumenthal, Uri - 0662 - MITLL
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Kyle Hamilton
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Kyle Hamilton
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … David-Sarah Hopwood
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Blumenthal, Uri - 0662 - MITLL
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Joseph Salowey (jsalowey)
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Nelson B Bolyard
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Nasko Oskov
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … David-Sarah Hopwood
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … David-Sarah Hopwood
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Joseph Salowey (jsalowey)
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Pasi.Eronen
- Re: [TLS] Summarizing identity change discussion … Joseph Salowey (jsalowey)