Re: [TLS] security levels for TLS

Mike <mike-list@pobox.com> Fri, 12 October 2007 23:14 UTC

Return-path: <tls-bounces@lists.ietf.org>
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgTi6-0004QP-DZ; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 19:14:26 -0400
Received: from tls by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IgTi5-0004OZ-Lc for tls-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 19:14:25 -0400
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgTi5-0003sE-C4 for tls@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 19:14:25 -0400
Received: from sceptre.pobox.com ([207.106.133.20]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgThp-0000El-CD for tls@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 19:14:15 -0400
Received: from sceptre (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by sceptre.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBDBA2EF for <tls@lists.ietf.org>; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 19:13:57 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.8] (wsip-24-234-114-35.lv.lv.cox.net [24.234.114.35]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by sceptre.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F24DB8996E for <tls@lists.ietf.org>; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 19:13:56 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <4710000A.7020006@pobox.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:15:22 -0700
From: Mike <mike-list@pobox.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: tls@lists.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [TLS] security levels for TLS
References: <c331d99a0710080621g7c0ec91et35c46553c23f4402@mail.gmail.com> <470FC52E.6080707@pobox.com> <p06240828c3357a914a76@[192.168.1.3]> <200710122237.30517.nmav@gnutls.org> <20071012200032.70EEA33C23@delta.rtfm.com>
In-Reply-To: <20071012200032.70EEA33C23@delta.rtfm.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1
X-BeenThere: tls@lists.ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.lists.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@lists.ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/tls>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@lists.ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@lists.ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@lists.ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: tls-bounces@lists.ietf.org

>>> Confusing and/or giving users false senses of security are definitely
>>> negative.
>> Actually I think the latter sentence describes the current situation!
> 
> How so? Nothing at all stops you from putting any indicator you
> like in your code. Why does IETF have to standardize it?

I think there is some mis-communication going on.  I have never
even mentioned the IETF standardizing an "indicator" of security
level.  Someone else may have, but I reject that idea as well.

All I've proposed is that the client send a few extra bytes of
information specifying the sizes of keys/parameters that are
not defined by the cipher suites.  Every client is free to
determine what it thinks is acceptable in this regard.  There
would be no "standard profiles" or even "suggested profiles"
since over time they would become outdated.

Here is a simple code example of what I envision:

    TlsSecurityProfile profile_Generic;
    TlsSecurityProfile profile_Strong;

    profile_Generic.SetRSAKeyLength (1024, 900);  // desired, minimum
    profile_Generic.SetDSAKeyLength (1024, 900);
    profile_Generic.SetDHParameterSize (1024, 1000);

    profile_Strong.SetRSAKeyLength (2048, 2000);
    profile_Strong.SetDSAKeyLength (2048, 2000);
    profile_Strong.SetDHParameterSize (1536, 1536);

    ConnectTLS ("www.amazon.com:443", profile_Generic);
    ConnectTLS ("www.mybank.com:443", profile_Strong);

Currently TLS cannot totally support this interface, but with the
extension I proposed, it could.

Mike


_______________________________________________
TLS mailing list
TLS@lists.ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls