[TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-super-jumbo-record-limit-02 (Ends 2025-11-25)

Ilari Liusvaara <ilariliusvaara@welho.com> Fri, 21 November 2025 08:29 UTC

Return-Path: <ilariliusvaara@welho.com>
X-Original-To: tls@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: tls@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A2148DD519C for <tls@mail2.ietf.org>; Fri, 21 Nov 2025 00:29:36 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=welho.com
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E_RwGUiscX_H for <tls@mail2.ietf.org>; Fri, 21 Nov 2025 00:29:35 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtp.dnamail.fi (sender103.dnamail.fi [83.102.40.157]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 184DE8DD5197 for <tls@ietf.org>; Fri, 21 Nov 2025 00:29:34 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.dnamail.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6895A409E138 for <tls@ietf.org>; Fri, 21 Nov 2025 10:29:27 +0200 (EET)
X-Virus-Scanned: X-Virus-Scanned: amavis at smtp.dnamail.fi
Received: from smtp.dnamail.fi ([83.102.40.157]) by localhost (dmail-psmtp02.s.dnaip.fi [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10024) with ESMTP id RnKqLLLR3ZZV for <tls@ietf.org>; Fri, 21 Nov 2025 10:29:26 +0200 (EET)
Received: from LK-Perkele-VII2 (87-92-117-27.bb.dnainternet.fi [87.92.117.27]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: hliusvaa@dnamail.internal) by smtp.dnamail.fi (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D2DBF4098E85 for <tls@ietf.org>; Fri, 21 Nov 2025 10:29:26 +0200 (EET)
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp.dnamail.fi D2DBF4098E85
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=welho.com; s=2025-03; t=1763713766; bh=m+ZCu3aszbtY4xjZ5WkUWlaLXy8qEYVQA4T5mpFYl2k=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=hMs5gv/npI9Zo9LFtlmJSHfTC4XmruCBmdclD0yC8KdS8AbCUGO3nJmlQpQlBMM9G vCYE76PX0fUxiiptBWdstOrVqOEYIoWZYs91muWKhH089QkAkqTHwP4O74cpDbJsbz iWKCN5L2gioEAYPBVsLHGhD5sLcy5Jf7G4GWx9i9ki+V/ZKxeW4gaOGDD2alg934xM nhjw/HlZ6c4wa83Sove+147OJLl4Jfvmmc1vmRVZ1TwORV2U5aooiesGYCqrqfbo/8 Gz05AkwnDmmL2BChVwiMyzIS2xiERl0xPCRoL4YleCDsZXlilKsh+MfHrya41HSeD0 EnlR9KDGEoBbg==
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2025 10:29:26 +0200
From: Ilari Liusvaara <ilariliusvaara@welho.com>
To: tls@ietf.org
Message-ID: <aSAi5gbxqBumkyVS@LK-Perkele-VII2.locald>
References: <176226814185.517610.18328497166055791127@dt-datatracker-5df8666cb-7l4w5> <a1c2a664-6312-4c4c-9578-f73438b21d41@betaapp.fastmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <a1c2a664-6312-4c4c-9578-f73438b21d41@betaapp.fastmail.com>
Sender: ilariliusvaara@welho.com
Message-ID-Hash: XKOURKTG2YHOCVBTEHC6DR7Z56UJK7II
X-Message-ID-Hash: XKOURKTG2YHOCVBTEHC6DR7Z56UJK7II
X-MailFrom: ilariliusvaara@welho.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tls.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [TLS] Re: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-super-jumbo-record-limit-02 (Ends 2025-11-25)
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/oca6I2DZE6sp6GMYzNKtSGh_nB8>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:tls-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:tls-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:tls-leave@ietf.org>

On Fri, Nov 21, 2025 at 03:05:48PM +1100, Martin Thomson wrote:
> 
> I would not worry about the size adjustments in the AEAD limits. 
> Those 256 bytes don't change things at all and I think that the limits
> apply to plaintext sizes anyway (which can be up to 2^14.

IIRC, the limits apply to number of blocks used.

With (full-tag) AES-GCM there is a trick to calculating how many bytes
of the ~362GB limit have been used: Take size of each record payload in
bytes, round up to multiple of 16 bytes and sum the results.

E.g., records  of 1221, 989, 738 and 800 bytes use up
1232+992+752+800=3776 bytes from the 362GB limit.


This trick is not correct for Chacha20, but rekeying every ~360GB is
acceptable (the actual limit is effectively infinite).




-Ilari