Re: [TLS] Data volume limits
"Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL" <uri@ll.mit.edu> Wed, 30 December 2015 00:20 UTC
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From: "Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL" <uri@ll.mit.edu>
To: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>, Dave Garrett <davemgarrett@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [TLS] Data volume limits
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Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 00:20:28 +0000
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Cc: Florian Weimer <fweimer@redhat.com>, "tls@ietf.org" <tls@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [TLS] Data volume limits
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I like option (2) from Eric's taxonomy. Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Verizon Wireless 4G LTE network. From: Eric Rescorla Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 18:12 To: Dave Garrett Cc: Florian Weimer; tls@ietf.org Subject: Re: [TLS] Data volume limits On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 5:08 PM, Dave Garrett <davemgarrett@gmail.com> wrote: On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 02:10:25 pm Brian Smith wrote: > Note that NIST Special Publication 800-133 [1] defines these separate > terms, and I suggest we use them in this conversation to avoid confusion: > > Key update: A procedure in which a new cryptographic key is computed as a > function of the (old) cryptographic key that it will replace. > > Rekey: A procedure in which a new cryptographic key is generated in a > manner that is independent of the (old) cryptographic key that it will > replace. > > [1] http://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/SpecialPublications/NIST.SP.800-133.pdf The current spec mostly uses the former, so yes, I guess we really should stop saying "rekey" if this has been defined like this. The single use of "rekey" in the doc should probably be changed to "key update" if we keep things as-is, then. Maybe. I don't find this taxonomy particularly evocative. On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 02:33:38 pm Eric Rescorla wrote: > Note: the keys here are *not* derived from the old keys. Rather, they are derived via > a KDF from the same secret that was used to generate the old keys. Yes, but they are derived from the same entropy as the old keys. Yes. I didn't say otherwise. Yes, that's not the same thing, but they're not totally independent new keys either. If we're only doing this as a hack to fix ciphers that have problems (that really should just be fixed instead), then this is fine. I think it's just the fact that we _could_ add a full rekey mechanism without a fantastic amount of additional effort is what's giving some people pause. Well, i don't know what "fantastic" means here, but we did look at this prior to designing the present mechanism and it was a nontrivial amount of additional complexity. -Ekr
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Data volume limits Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Benjamin Beurdouche
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Russ Housley
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Hanno Böck
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Brian Smith
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Henrick Hellström
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Andrey Jivsov
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Henrick Hellström
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Brian Smith
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Bill Frantz
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Martin Thomson
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Andrey Jivsov
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Ryan Carboni
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Simon Josefsson
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Henrick Hellström
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Dang, Quynh
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Brian Smith
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Brian Smith
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Dang, Quynh
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Florian Weimer
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Florian Weimer
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Dang, Quynh
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Brian Smith
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Aaron Zauner
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Aaron Zauner
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Samuel Neves
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Henrick Wibell Hellström
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Aaron Zauner
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits sneves
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Aaron Zauner
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits James Cloos
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Samuel Neves
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits James Cloos
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits James Cloos
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Florian Weimer
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Florian Weimer
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Hubert Kario
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Florian Weimer
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [TLS] Data volume limits Florian Weimer