Re: [TLS] Mirja Kühlewind's No Objection on draft-ietf-tls-grease-03: (with COMMENT)

Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Sun, 18 August 2019 00:44 UTC

Return-Path: <ekr@rtfm.com>
X-Original-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 127B31200F5 for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2019 17:44:34 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.896
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EATt91Pk6F_x for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Aug 2019 17:44:31 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-lj1-x231.google.com (mail-lj1-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0485112006D for <tls@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2019 17:44:31 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-lj1-x231.google.com with SMTP id x18so8462268ljh.1 for <tls@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Aug 2019 17:44:30 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=gG98yI+F0X1V2rSWZHaiDLAwXx9drSfmRII9EVvjiEc=; b=ABPkTJPWmN/ZphuyVFpqEOXDzR1U17D12kW1j87PJyZ9wLktcbRuAUjnJOe5Q6kV6q lFDx4ES+bc6ycaHqU0GM3AsKlxvslK9Fhxt51yxrbS7p9ZO/EFqfiY/SW6uk8CsQCSc9 x2vsonMmS+LmCD+skTP/b1uNlFWne8eedpjK+3HLgA43qb0BeoEFKRkU8hj6dDF+A3GD m0Z87DRPyLYIecpvsVP8SxTXX82JNCqA5tY3jtfZ0CBaffclUnsAT5+duFT/8Cm+yiji AaNC/yJ7nUn+IqB+rjRAY3yxbkir++4l9htXjbN5EeLaTXxlxSVCEMlX7my2hjmDGLJr nYzg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=gG98yI+F0X1V2rSWZHaiDLAwXx9drSfmRII9EVvjiEc=; b=JzKFUtOxh+qwTa03RlqduVa2nQjYfGPhQk/ITFS2uhhQvptw9nej0o2LLG1/vPwNRg +iPxmVYFz81xAgXrt8ugK1PJ0Nt9GyytLIuxS/U/ffPxXO2ZZXwUubq7tGzqcREBYVyV UrW7sMcnsLby/nULVjSpQsyp+S0ZmAT0YbcuXVJzjdZwUYoKzMlosngu9z12RLrDI8ht p4zaanULbfy81PZAHYfmoZ8qI7KOGCT5QrfTnwoNu64nTx5duqxWdfTzhVqxUl9Md4L5 ZbIhtrbQ+ueGQ+/dDyYq11JzoUjoJly7E+8jxG1au3yRl0UZY/1imcOFIeDMRUw8l6lF KeUA==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXdsxZ6NfQ9FxRcdtjFZwefznR/eeR3uo0c1ZVI05Q7epDt4Qd/ dwkllABw+LCOHtPAhIi+kBQzTDd7en5/xhOrpe10rQ==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzaTsKqUmAIPro2KozxGkSuWM1ybItFgIO700sOpxlmglwHnYt1eJDqx+4R7m6b0I7Ns/SJqLl1XepnwLkQlAA=
X-Received: by 2002:a2e:b0e6:: with SMTP id h6mr8425841ljl.18.1566089069215; Sat, 17 Aug 2019 17:44:29 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <156588466304.15861.9219490518200903631.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <20190816033931.GI88236@kduck.mit.edu> <AB4B55DE-E46A-49B6-8C9A-11CBF63651FD@kuehlewind.net> <20190817230707.GU88236@kduck.mit.edu>
In-Reply-To: <20190817230707.GU88236@kduck.mit.edu>
From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2019 02:43:52 +0200
Message-ID: <CABcZeBPosDmAn0v10kZ6JEFY6MoN-u4J=2gTJ_9nekxqz8qcPA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
Cc: Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net>, draft-ietf-tls-grease@ietf.org, "<tls@ietf.org>" <tls@ietf.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, tls-chairs <tls-chairs@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a858d905905986a3"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/uQIrkdZUUHeaGJf023jdtIn6Oz0>
Subject: Re: [TLS] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-i?= =?utf-8?q?etf-tls-grease-03=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?=
X-BeenThere: tls@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls/>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2019 00:44:34 -0000

I do not think this needs to be a PS specification. The code points here do
not require a standards track RFC.

Note that advancing this at PS would require a new IETF LC.

-Ekr



On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 1:07 AM Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>; wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 09:35:09AM +0200, Mirja Kuehlewind wrote:
> > Hi Ben,
> >
> > Thanks for the explanation.
> >
> > I would think this is actually a PS given it extents a protocol based on
> the extension point this protocol provides. Maybe it is not really adding a
> new function but it also kind of is: I would call probing for non-compliant
> implementations a protocol function. I mean if we would specify greasing
> for a new protocol, I think it would simply be part of the main spec.
>
> Re "part of the main spec", perhaps, but presumably not a
> mandatory-to-implement one?
> To look at it a different way, what kind of interoperability requirements
> does GREASE mandate?  Isn't it just the same interoperability requirements
> of the main protocol, i.e., an incremental addition of zero?
>
> -Ben
>
> _______________________________________________
> TLS mailing list
> TLS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls
>