[TLS] shibboleth and the nonce

Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com> Thu, 24 July 2014 18:21 UTC

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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 11:21:00 -0700
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From: Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
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Subject: [TLS] shibboleth and the nonce
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(No, that's not a proposed prog-synth-death-polka band name.)

The arguments around the way that explicit/implicit nonces interact
with certification were, I thought, already exhausted.  So I'd like to
see if some points can be clarified:

As far as I am aware, there are no concrete concerns about implicit
nonces from a straight-up security perspective.  Is that right?

If the concerns are solely around the certification of crypto modules,
then we need more information to be able to make a rational decision

If the static inputs are keys, and the per-record inputs are nonce +
ad + plaintext, I see no problem.

The previous response to suggestions that the nonce was a required
input was to have a counter produce the nonce input, with a matching
counter and validation in the module.

The new information yesterday was that David McGrew suggested that the
nonce needed to be arbitrary.  In that case, do we actually need the
input to be validated?  Does the certification process check that the
module produces different output for different nonces by starting
separate module instances with the same values for all other inputs
(keys, ad, and plaintext) then varying the input nonces?

I'm sure that there are other concerns, but it's hard for me to make
an assessment based on the information made available thus far.