[TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantum Hybrid ECDHE-MLKEM Key Agreement for TLSv1.3
Kris Kwiatkowski <kris@amongbytes.com> Fri, 10 October 2025 09:50 UTC
Return-Path: <kris@amongbytes.com>
X-Original-To: tls@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: tls@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 024647091347 for <tls@mail2.ietf.org>; Fri, 10 Oct 2025 02:50:25 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.095
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=amongbytes.com
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ohho0uGXUyxE for <tls@mail2.ietf.org>; Fri, 10 Oct 2025 02:50:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from 2.mo580.mail-out.ovh.net (2.mo580.mail-out.ovh.net [178.33.255.145]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 41D927091335 for <tls@ietf.org>; Fri, 10 Oct 2025 02:50:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mxplan8.mail.ovh.net (unknown [10.110.37.210]) by mo580.mail-out.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cjhn311Kfz5wj8; Fri, 10 Oct 2025 09:50:15 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from amongbytes.com (37.59.142.108) by mxplan8.mail.ovh.net (172.16.2.82) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.2507.59; Fri, 10 Oct 2025 11:50:14 +0200
Authentication-Results: garm.ovh; auth=pass (GARM-108S0021af04454-05da-4a00-93b8-160247c5475d, 74D9401547C7F04CD6AEBC49B119D12EDAA5279F) smtp.auth=kris@amongbytes.com
X-OVh-ClientIp: 88.97.253.244
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------Oc1I8RtZAKNTuSmgMMsaTD8D"
Message-ID: <e00950bf-1ce3-494b-a3be-f2ca2ac0d481@amongbytes.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2025 10:50:13 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
To: Bas Westerbaan <bas=40cloudflare.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
References: <CAOgPGoA+c8kXDizwsvFG5tLz9+Kxk0HqiN1skKp5jMvvpxeu0Q@mail.gmail.com> <CABcZeBO+3u=1=ueNscq+O74Qv=7PC5NedsGsugp=GZjVqtODoQ@mail.gmail.com> <1040fcc9-46e3-197e-1fa7-353c978486fb@nohats.ca> <CABcZeBMZ=0ByGpDzHsfq2m3wO9NhpEoFX+2k0_8NhTiAYekqBw@mail.gmail.com> <aOimWoGkK3_dGOSF@chardros.imrryr.org> <1d14a4f9-ab5c-471f-88cf-e3ca963d7f9e@amongbytes.com> <CAMjbhoVG=Rvm2tMHmXCfmrn4=hj2aiKb_w7VYAbG5THcvs++eQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Language: en-GB
From: Kris Kwiatkowski <kris@amongbytes.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAMjbhoVG=Rvm2tMHmXCfmrn4=hj2aiKb_w7VYAbG5THcvs++eQ@mail.gmail.com>
X-Ovh-Tracer-GUID: 6583917d-ac5e-44a3-bb88-dcdd60a3bb83
X-Ovh-Tracer-Id: 15480842246466224026
X-VR-SPAMSTATE: OK
X-VR-SPAMSCORE: 0
X-VR-SPAMCAUSE: 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
DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha256; bh=fxEhsQVFjFpWAoPEDHtutucnLoRInYh/CP245Le2M0M=; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=amongbytes.com; h=From; s=ovhmo2671616-selector1; t=1760089815; v=1; b=IFY6vp8bLIV+wJqhS+iglnySwgEyPRg9P6ajCg5X1OujqI7YB94pszr0gomaA/D006mubib1 n6hRPB5qr0ni0q370PbmWa+zXy9euoA4w5pno4khYBuLKb+vfOwMEf4mGsUNkGwmwoMIhjVOfzk KodDyxJeszirHiZcVuR14rDYSqyPpIDJ+c3Qwo5OjOu4pVGvHdxX9p8vJs9b2bqj3PkENgFETFp PMSQvItDJSIC6JGS4fJqpG5cBpmhaKb2TRaLOZk0w6trrB/O0kj8FlfJZEoOYCp1z1c8Pa4moKy WgiKUJ4fyT+ipCIYB2JAKLv20CmeCEFHfKHhzrX+dUTHw==
Message-ID-Hash: NZY3S7RU4EYQLLD5KPFP2ZYT333KJHVF
X-Message-ID-Hash: NZY3S7RU4EYQLLD5KPFP2ZYT333KJHVF
X-MailFrom: kris@amongbytes.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tls.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: tls@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantum Hybrid ECDHE-MLKEM Key Agreement for TLSv1.3
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/xb9-wMHxvHHWUZ3-hGLe5uVKhfE>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:tls-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:tls-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:tls-leave@ietf.org>
I also see no reason to delay this document. Additional code points can always be added later, either through an update or a separate draft. Discussion about those new code points may take several more months anyway. Meanwhile, the minimal set proposed here has already been discussed for some time and should serve well as a starting point. On 10/10/2025 10:31, Bas Westerbaan wrote: > Setting aside the question of use cases for a moment, let me note that no > one even bothered to ask IANA to assign codepoints for any hybrid not > already listed in this I-D. I see no reason to hold up this document now: we > can always publish a follow-up later on.
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Paul Wouters
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Working Group Last Call for Post-quantum Hy… Joseph Salowey
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… David Adrian
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Loganaden Velvindron
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Kampanakis, Panos
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Kampanakis, Panos
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Kris Kwiatkowski
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Kris Kwiatkowski
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Loganaden Velvindron
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… tirumal reddy
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Yaroslav Rosomakho
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Jan Schaumann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Thom Wiggers
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group … Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: [External⚠️] Re: Working Group Last Cal… Yaroslav Rosomakho
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Martin Thomson
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Andrei Popov
- [TLS] Re: [External] Re: Working Group Last Call … D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Yaroslav Rosomakho
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Filippo Valsorda
- [TLS] Re: [External] Re: Working Group Last Call … Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: [External] Re: Working Group Last Call … John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Watson Ladd
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group … Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Yaroslav Rosomakho
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group … Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group … Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Dennis Jackson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Jan Schaumann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Stephen Farrell
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Joseph Birr-Pixton
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Robert Relyea
- [TLS] Re: [EXT] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group … Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Kris Kwiatkowski
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Kampanakis, Panos
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Jan Schaumann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Sophie Schmieg
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Christopher Patton
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Kris Kwiatkowski
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Viktor Dukhovni
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Jan Schaumann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Kampanakis, Panos
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Deirdre Connolly
- [TLS] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Working Group Last Call … Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Appeal Response to Rob Sayre - was Re: Re: … Paul Wouters
- [TLS] Re: Appeal Response to Rob Sayre - was Re: … Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… D. J. Bernstein
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Jan Schaumann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… John Mattsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Peter Gutmann
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Yaakov Stein
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Kampanakis, Panos
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Bellebaum, Thomas
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Robert Relyea
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Kris Kwiatkowski
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Simon Josefsson
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Sophie Schmieg
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Alicja Kario
- [TLS] Re: Working Group Last Call for Post-quantu… Joseph Salowey