Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS

Tom Ritter <> Wed, 20 May 2015 14:49 UTC

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From: Tom Ritter <>
Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 09:48:44 -0500
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To: Watson Ladd <>
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Subject: Re: [TLS] Another IRINA bug in TLS
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On 20 May 2015 at 09:05, Watson Ladd <> wrote:
> Transcript hashing will solve this problem.

Will it?  (Or at least, I'm not sure where you intend to include the
transcript hash, in which case - maybe.)

I think the issue is the same as the Section 4.4 here: - the underlying cause
being that the ephemeral parameters' signature doesn't include enough
context.   In Schneier's, the algorithm needed to be included (it
still isn't, in TLS 1.2 - we just (hope) we have stricter checking on
the data in implementations).

In this one, the signature could be argued to be needed to go over the
ciphersuite (to say "Don't use these parameters except with this
ciphersuite"), maybe more data (to say "Only uses these parameters if
you've sent me this transcript"), or even arguably no change at all:
don't sign things you don't intend to use.  (Not that that last one is
good IMO.)

If you mean hash the transcript into the master secret (e.g. the
extended master secret draft) - I don't think that's a fix.  The
client will hash all of its handshake messages into its master secret
- but the client is talking to _me_ the attacker.  I copy-and-paste
the server's ephemeral parameters, and the signature, but I can derive
the same MS as the client and happily talk to the client, decrypting
and passing the data back along to the server who I'm talking to in a
different connection.