Re: [TLS] Publication of draft-rhrd-tls-tls13-visibility-00

"Ackermann, Michael" <MAckermann@bcbsm.com> Mon, 23 October 2017 16:22 UTC

Return-Path: <mackermann@bcbsm.com>
X-Original-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CC1F13954E for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 09:22:31 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.09
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.09 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (body has been altered)" header.d=bcbsm.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DQPp8CPYYzvs for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 09:22:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx.z120.zixworks.com (bcbsm.zixworks.com [199.30.235.120]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F392F137ED6 for <tls@ietf.org>; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 09:22:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from 127.0.0.1 (ZixVPM [127.0.0.1]) by Outbound.z120.zixworks.com (Proprietary) with SMTP id 60340C0DBC for <tls@ietf.org>; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 11:22:28 -0500 (CDT)
Received: from imsva2.bcbsm.com (unknown [12.107.172.81]) by mx.z120.zixworks.com (Proprietary) with SMTP id 753C7C0DA4; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 11:22:27 -0500 (CDT)
Received: from imsva2.bcbsm.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FCEEFE048; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 12:22:27 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from imsva2.bcbsm.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id E00DDFE066; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 12:22:26 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from NAM01-SN1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (unknown [207.46.163.115]) by imsva2.bcbsm.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 12:22:26 -0400 (EDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bcbsm.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-bcbsm-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=gHDhE4p/5MU6Ni8LM9Qwxicj7jDAlKzhNBvN1Q8RApw=; b=TT48sNi//kRGYlNwu8GtrEv33MGzTVJMZymCb+1sMScHxk8XNSfQMNIpzG+fdV/MxsG5SAn6FWeMmf2gcq5eDOVVI1ze/yMlAqQOqyrJTR6wJWXkpljQeY3qTRDLJ6wC7PedcKspNLWMA11WPnT6V9aCVFP1bV9y6pFSsaAgYZM=
Received: from CY4PR14MB1368.namprd14.prod.outlook.com (10.172.158.148) by CY4PR14MB1368.namprd14.prod.outlook.com (10.172.158.148) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.20.77.7; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 16:22:24 +0000
Received: from CY4PR14MB1368.namprd14.prod.outlook.com ([10.172.158.148]) by CY4PR14MB1368.namprd14.prod.outlook.com ([10.172.158.148]) with mapi id 15.20.0077.022; Mon, 23 Oct 2017 16:22:24 +0000
From: "Ackermann, Michael" <MAckermann@bcbsm.com>
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
CC: Steve Fenter <steven.fenter58@gmail.com>, "tls@ietf.org" <tls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [TLS] Publication of draft-rhrd-tls-tls13-visibility-00
Thread-Index: AQHTO710HVvcnaInjUunozwwxCXv1qLp+S4AgAFTKoCAAAWPgIAAANmAgAABFgCAAAA7gIAAAPWAgAADKICAAALZAIAABTaAgAACs4CAAAEIAIAABEYAgAAZuoCAAAV4gIAAVLoAgAD/VwCAABsIAIAADvYAgAAFHmCAAAbigIADZUkAgAAIFICAAB86QIAACamAgAD42jCAABKIgIAACV1A
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 16:22:24 +0000
Message-ID: <CY4PR14MB13680B6D5726D940C4C51B4BD7460@CY4PR14MB1368.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <7E6C8F1F-D341-456B-9A48-79FA7FEC0BC1@gmail.com> <a599d6ad-54db-e525-17d6-6ea882880021@akamai.com> <71e75d23f4544735a9731c4ec3dc7048@venafi.com> <3D2E3E26-B2B9-4B04-9704-0BBEE2E2A8F7@akamai.com> <000501d348e5$1f273450$5d759cf0$@equio.com> <70837127-37AB-4132-9535-4A0EB072BA41@akamai.com> <e8417cc424fe4bf3b240416dfffd807a@venafi.com> <B11A4F30-2F87-4310-A2F0-397582E78E1D@akamai.com> <fd12a8a8c29e4c7f9e9192e1a1d972d6@venafi.com> <D2CAAA44-339E-4B41-BCE0-865C76B50E2F@akamai.com> <d76828f02fc34287a961eba21901247b@venafi.com> <56687FEC-508F-4457-83CC-7C379387240D@akamai.com> <c1c0d010293c449481f8751c3b85d6ae@venafi.com> <4167392E-07FB-46D5-9FBC-4773881BFD2C@akamai.com> <3d5a0c1aab3e4ceb85ff631f8365618f@venafi.com> <E84889BB-08B3-4A3A-AE3A-687874B16440@akamai.com> <CAPBBiVQvtQbD4j3ofpCmG63MEyRWF15VL90NOTjeNqUOiyo6xg@mail.gmail.com> <9013424B-4F6D-4185-9BFD-EC454FF80F22@akamai.com> <CY4PR14MB1368CBA562220D9A3604F0FFD7430@CY4PR14MB1368.namprd14.prod.outlook.com> <2741e833-c0d1-33ca-0ad3-b71122220bc5@cs.tcd.ie> <CY4PR14MB136835A3306DEEFCA89D3C2DD7430@CY4PR14MB1368.namprd14.prod.outlook.com> <31F5A73E-F37E-40D8-AA7D-8BB861692FED@akamai.com> <13592ABB-BA71-4DF9-BEE4-1E0C3ED50598@gmail.com> <2EE9CB23-AEDA-4155-BF24-EBC70CD302EF@fugue.com> <CY4PR14MB136816569A2AE2A9760C6E08D7410@CY4PR14MB1368.namprd14.prod.outlook.com> <557F43AC-A236-47BB-8C51-EDD37D09D5CB@fugue.com> <CY4PR14MB13684F18AD75F4AE767CE35CD7460@CY4PR14MB1368.namprd14.prod.outlook.com> <57CFBA2A-E878-47B0-8284-35369D4DA2DF@fugue.com>
In-Reply-To: <57CFBA2A-E878-47B0-8284-35369D4DA2DF@fugue.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=MAckermann@bcbsm.com;
x-originating-ip: [165.225.39.58]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; CY4PR14MB1368; 20:SbTIQMQBz0Z3Hp2Vz1AjP0P957bzwr/wafUCVMqsfhqCbPw/4zmn39AxW/rOnZ82FQRTlEiuadksIyZPYt7kzKQG+6uHc8PdsxYeiCb5juAiQPL5oKMzdGClJUAxBgB/CzMF8boZp0rgiV5rbG+b2lrzBw41WhCGUy1uPxtAT1w=
x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SSOS;
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 03a679fd-ce22-4d90-f1c4-08d51a323ee0
x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(4534020)(4602075)(4627075)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(2017052603199); SRVR:CY4PR14MB1368;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: CY4PR14MB1368:
x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(21748063052155)(86572411397741);
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <CY4PR14MB136882883FB9FCF6B51CADBCD7460@CY4PR14MB1368.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000700101)(100105000095)(100000701101)(100105300095)(100000702101)(100105100095)(6040450)(2401047)(5005006)(8121501046)(100000703101)(100105400095)(93006095)(93001095)(3002001)(3231020)(10201501046)(6041248)(20161123555025)(20161123562025)(20161123558100)(201703131423075)(201702281528075)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(20161123564025)(20161123560025)(6072148)(201708071742011)(100000704101)(100105200095)(100000705101)(100105500095); SRVR:CY4PR14MB1368; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000800101)(100110000095)(100000801101)(100110300095)(100000802101)(100110100095)(100000803101)(100110400095)(100000804101)(100110200095)(100000805101)(100110500095); SRVR:CY4PR14MB1368;
x-forefront-prvs: 046985391D
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(346002)(376002)(24454002)(189002)(199003)(790700001)(6436002)(81166006)(80792005)(5660300001)(8936002)(81156014)(14454004)(6246003)(54906003)(3846002)(99286003)(236005)(316002)(6116002)(68736007)(55016002)(8676002)(25786009)(66066001)(102836003)(54356999)(7736002)(3280700002)(53936002)(2906002)(86362001)(101416001)(7696004)(9686003)(53546010)(97736004)(50986999)(74316002)(6916009)(6506006)(230783001)(106356001)(54896002)(2900100001)(93886005)(2950100002)(189998001)(105586002)(33656002)(76176999)(19609705001)(4326008)(72206003)(229853002)(77096006)(39060400002)(478600001)(6306002)(3660700001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CY4PR14MB1368; H:CY4PR14MB1368.namprd14.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: bcbsm.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CY4PR14MB13680B6D5726D940C4C51B4BD7460CY4PR14MB1368namp_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: bcbsm.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Oct 2017 16:22:24.7315 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 6f56d3fa-5682-4261-b169-bc0d615da17c
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY4PR14MB1368
X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00
X-VPM-HOST: vmvpm02.z120.zixworks.com
X-VPM-GROUP-ID: 75f4f6fb-1bf6-4949-8914-b3300899b88d
X-VPM-MSG-ID: b71a8560-4c77-4223-86c3-0cab818c4032
X-VPM-ENC-REGIME: Plaintext
X-VPM-IS-HYBRID: 0
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/zXMc-iv5FtlLSvRvBVlcSMjWdLA>
Subject: Re: [TLS] Publication of draft-rhrd-tls-tls13-visibility-00
X-BeenThere: tls@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls/>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 16:22:31 -0000

I am merely trying to understand if there are any constructive suggestions amongst all these discussions, that we should consider.

Your comment was
"It would be better to use a simpler protocol,"

My question back to you was WHAT SIMPLIER PROTOCOL?

If  your answer to my question,  is to refer to Kathleen's document,  then she discusses a few things.   If I have to guess which one of those you may be referring to,  I will guess IPSEC?
Is this correct?   Are you suggesting we should convert to IPSEC?

If that was stated in any previous correspondence,  I did not see it.

From: Ted Lemon [mailto:mellon@fugue.com]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2017 11:41 AM
To: Ackermann, Michael <MAckermann@bcbsm.com>;
Cc: Steve Fenter <steven.fenter58@gmail.com>;; tls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [TLS] Publication of draft-rhrd-tls-tls13-visibility-00

On Oct 23, 2017, at 10:35 AM, Ackermann, Michael <MAckermann@bcbsm.com<mailto:MAckermann@bcbsm.com>> wrote:
I was only asking what your opinion was, based on that statement in your reply.

With respect, Michael, I gave my opinion in the message to which Kathleen replied, so your assertion that you have been reading these messages doesn't seem to be reflected in the dialog we are having.


The information contained in this communication is highly confidential and is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom this communication is directed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any viewing, copying, disclosure or distribution of this information is prohibited. Please notify the sender, by electronic mail or telephone, of any unintended receipt and delete the original message without making any copies.
 
 Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan and Blue Care Network of Michigan are nonprofit corporations and independent licensees of the Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association.