[TLS]Re: WG Adoption for TLS Trust Expressions

[Dennis Jackson <[e-mail]>]

Hi Nick,

On 21/05/2024 19:05, Nick Harper wrote:
> [...]
>
> Perhaps there are additional ways to use Trust Expressions to censor 
> the web that are more practical and more useful than the existing 
> techniques that I didn't consider. There are most certainly other 
> forms of domestic control of the Web that I didn't consider. From my 
> analysis, if I were a government looking to enable surveillance and 
> domestic control of the Web, I don't see Trust Expressions as 
> something that unlocks new options or makes existing techniques 
> easier/more reliable. It is at most something to keep in mind as 
> technology evolves. Maybe I'm not very imaginative, and you've 
> imagined much more interesting ways a government might surveil the web 
> or attempt to control it using Trust Expressions.
>
This thread is now 40+ messages deep and I guess you might have not seen 
much of the previous discussion. I actually agree with much of your 
analysis, but it focused on the wrong question, as I wrote earlier in 
this thread:

> The question we're evaluating is NOT "If we were in a very unhappy 
> world where governments controlled root certificates on client devices 
> and used them for mass surveillance, does Trust Expressions make 
> things worse?" Although Watson observed that the answer to this is at 
> least 'somewhat', I agree such a world is already maxed at 10/10 on 
> the bad worlds to live in scale and so it's not by itself a major 
> problem in my view.
>
> The actual concern is: to what extent do Trust Expressions increase 
> the probability that we end up in this unhappy world of government CAs 
> used for mass surveillance?

On 21/05/2024 19:05, Nick Harper wrote:

> I'd be interested to hear details on what those are.
Messages [1,2,3,4] of this thread lay out these details at length.

Besides these concerns which are unaddressed so far, much of the recent 
discussion has focused on establishing what problem(s) Trust Expressions 
actually solves and how effective a solution it actually is.

Looking forward to your thoughts on either or both aspects.

Best,
Dennis

[1] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/LaUJRHnEJds2Yfc-t-wgzkajXec/

[2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/zwPvDn9PkD5x9Yw1qul0QV4LoD8/

[3] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/9AyqlbxiG7BUYP0UD37253MeK6s/

[4] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/fxM4zkSn0b8zOs59xlH6uy8P7cE/

>
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